Michael Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 The Angry Man The other day I chanced to meet An angry man upon the street — A man of wrath, a man of war, A man who truculently bore Over his shoulder, like a lance, A banner labeled “Tolerance.” And when I asked him why he strode Thus scowling down the human road, Scowling, he answered, “I am he Who champions total liberty— Intolerance being, ma’am, a state No tolerant man can tolerate. “When I meet rogues,” he cried, “who choose To cherish oppositional views, Lady, like this, and in this manner, I lay about me with my banner Till they cry mercy, ma’am.” His blows Rained proudly on prospective foes. Fearful, I turned and left him there Still muttering, as he thrashed the air, “Let the Intolerant beware!” Phyllis McGinley (1905-1978) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridryder 911 Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 As for gay marriage- the government should not be involved in the first place, it is a religious union to be married. Government is sticking its nose in personal lives and legitimizing a social ideal and religious standard. If a person wants to be married to another of the same sex, then so be it. It is not Washington D.C.'s or any states business. Don't think it is a government or legal thing? Obtain a divorce and see how much government has to do with it. Pay taxes, then you should be taxed as single (no married deductions) etc..right? You can't have your cake an eat it too! Government should keep their noses out..? What about those idiots that believe in marrying minors (<10) should be legal (and yes many are well educated) and those that now believing in beastiality should be okay as well? Hey, it should be their right? .. Hey they are not hurting anyone right ? Where does it all stop? .. You may think I am over the top, but anyone discussing same sex marriage even 15 years ago, would have laughed at you as well. Sorry, there is right and wrong. Too bad you get upset with some moral values and integrity. Yes, it is a shame that the Government would have to be involved. Unfortunately, the world has lost most of its common sense and now someone as to say.. sorry that is wrong! It goes against the laws of nature. Just because it is cool and the fad at the time, does not make it right. What concerns me the most is the attitude and lack of moral values that many younger adults have. It is okay (as long as one does not get hurt) and anti-establishment and poor work ethic type attitudes. It does remind me of the 60's and we know where that went. James, I love ya (in a non-sexual way ) but let us remember many have died as well in the name of owning land, property and in the name of science too. Not all things that was being in the name of science is right or accurate either. Yes many have died in so called religious wars and still continue to do do. Unfortunately, most were enforcing their ways and ideologies not the teachings of the religion or faith they were supposed to be representing. Similar to what is done now per terrorism and the Karon. I can point as many wrongs science has produced by poor and inaccurate treatments, and false findings as those in the religious nature. Just science attempts to hide it and it is brushed under the table as "inconclusive" What confuses many is religion and science can actually go hand in hand and not battle each other or one has to take one side or another. I am just as tired of being forced to watch or even have different views crammed down my throat as well. For example Tuesday night between 6 and 9 pm, three major networks (including cable) had television dramas regarding "gay" topics. Sure, I changed the channel to only see it again and again. Now even here on a medical forum, guess what we have? ... No agenda ?..hmm Sorry, you are not going to change my mind, like I am not going to change your mind set. However, do not accuse those that disagree with it as being a bigot, narrow minded, and unintelligent, when I could say the same defense. Those that recite how inaccurate and how mythical the Bible is, does not present to understand the history, the defines and scrutiny was followed, and the level of education of those that taught scriptures over centuries, not decades and a few years (<1000). The difference is now many (like myself) is no longer going to accept criticism without a fight. So many for years have turned the other cheek (pun intended) and was forced to change views, or be called a bigot, or emphasis to be ashamed and now are legally fighting back as well through legislation and laws. Just as those that claim discrimination, I can describe the same as well that I have to accept something that I do not believe in morally and my faith teaches that is wrong. Like I described earlier, I have friends that are gay. They know my opinion, and like other those that practice immoral acts does not mean I ridicule, harass or treat them any indifferent than any other person. For you see, that is what my faith teaches me (Christianity). But, that does not mean I have to agree or accept that it is right. By my faith I am to point out the action is wrong (not judge you personally) and then you are to make that decision, so yes fee choice again. VsEh, I respect you as a person and especially your knowledge in EMS. I do wish I knew the reasons for such antagonist views against Christians. I am sorry if you do not understand the concept of Grace, and that the body actually has a soul. If ever some self proclaimed Christian(s) ever hurt you.. unfortunately, we are human and like any other groups we definitely have poor representatives. If that was the case, we apologize. I still pray for ya! R/r 911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hfdff422 Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Rid- No, I don't believe there should be any financial benefit from marriage. I do agree there should be an age limit, but there are laws on the books that should be enforced regarding statutory rape and contributing to the delinquency of a minor. As for marital tax breaks, the government takes too much money from us in taxes to support such things as abortion clinics and art that desecrates images of Mary and Jesus, yet the government is the one who should step in and tell us what is right and wrong? Government has continued to micro-manage society to its detriment, not its improvement. I do tend to agree that someone should step in and say that is wrong, but it should not be a bloated bereaucracy that doesn't know right from wrong itself. I don't believe that consenting adults should be punished for their pursuit of a relationship that suits them, and I don't see that as wrong. I do believe that a family starts with a man and a woman, but that has more to do with evolution than religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRPGfirerescuetech Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Sorry, there is right and wrong. Too bad you get upset with some moral values and integrity. Yes, it is a shame that the Government would have to be involved. Unfortunately, the world has lost most of its common sense and now someone as to say.. sorry that is wrong! It goes against the laws of nature. Just because it is cool and the fad at the time, does not make it right. Who defines morality? Who defines what is right? If the state defines it as legal, they why isnt the buck stopping there? Now we have a goverment who uses their personal religious beliefs in the definition of law for all people, even those who dont share those beliefs. It strikes me as a reverse of the religious persecution of yore. What concerns me the most is the attitude and lack of moral values that many younger adults have. It is okay (as long as one does not get hurt) and anti-establishment and poor work ethic type attitudes. It does remind me of the 60's and we know where that went. I cant argue that. James, I love ya (in a non-sexual way ) but let us remember many have died as well in the name of owning land, property and in the name of science too. Not all things that was being in the name of science is right or accurate either. Yes many have died in so called religious wars and still continue to do do. Unfortunately, most were enforcing their ways and ideologies not the teachings of the religion or faith they were supposed to be representing. Similar to what is done now per terrorism and the Karon. I love ya too bro, in an extremely platonic way :wink: , and your absolutely right in every example, but your missing the point. All of your examples are some of the many human injustices this planet has had to endure, and christian wars in the name of religion are just the same I can point as many wrongs science has produced by poor and inaccurate treatments, and false findings as those in the religious nature. Just science attempts to hide it and it is brushed under the table as "inconclusive" What confuses many is religion and science can actually go hand in hand and not battle each other or one has to take one side or another. Agreed I am just as tired of being forced to watch or even have different views crammed down my throat as well. For example Tuesday night between 6 and 9 pm, three major networks (including cable) had television dramas regarding "gay" topics. Sure, I changed the channel to only see it again and again. Agreed 100% I dont disagree with the fact that watching a gay pride parade is like watching a circus event anymore. You have a group who states that they want to be treated like everyone else parading down main streets in "everytown" us, juggling sex toys. That culture has to be held responsible as well. There is a line, and its been crossed of late. Now even here on a medical forum, guess what we have? ... No agenda ?..hmm Agreed. VS always has an agenda. Sorry, you are not going to change my mind, like I am not going to change your mind set. However, do not accuse those that disagree with it as being a bigot, narrow minded, and unintelligent, when I could say the same defense. Those that recite how inaccurate and how mythical the Bible is, does not present to understand the history, the defines and scrutiny was followed, and the level of education of those that taught scriptures over centuries, not decades and a few years (<1000). Agreed. I would never want to. Your beliefs are yours, regardless of my opinion of the opinion of anyone else, you need to do what is right for you. However, morality is defined by the people who practice it, and your version of moral SHOULD NOT stand for the morals of others. Simply stated, acceptance is key. For you to be upset at the immorality of others and be upset that VS critisizes the christian beliefs is hypocrasy. You want to be left alone in your beliefs, yet you want to push your beliefs on others? Questionable friend. The difference is now many (like myself) is no longer going to accept criticism without a fight. So many for years have turned the other cheek (pun intended) and was forced to change views, or be called a bigot, or emphasis to be ashamed and now are legally fighting back as well through legislation and laws. Good. Never accept criticism, stand strong in your beliefs. Just as those that claim discrimination, I can describe the same as well that I have to accept something that I do not believe in morally and my faith teaches that is wrong. Like I described earlier, I have friends that are gay. They know my opinion, and like other those that practice immoral acts does not mean I ridicule, harass or treat them any indifferent than any other person. For you see, that is what my faith teaches me (Christianity). But, that does not mean I have to agree or accept that it is right. By my faith I am to point out the action is wrong (not judge you personally) and then you are to make that decision, so yes fee choice again. Amen to that. However, acceptance of differences is what defines the human race. VsEh, I respect you as a person and especially your knowledge in EMS. I do wish I knew the reasons for such antagonist views against Christians. I am sorry if you do not understand the concept of Grace, and that the body actually has a soul. If ever some self proclaimed Christian(s) ever hurt you.. unfortunately, we are human and like any other groups we definitely have poor representatives. If that was the case, we apologize. I still pray for ya! Word. 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DwayneEMTP Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 He has a belief too. This same belief causes him to make people think through discussions like this one. This discussion is not meant to make people think, it's only design is to give him the opportunity to restate his monthly "Christians are idiots" crap. It's the same discussion, with the same shallow arguments, all over again. It has no more purpose than his icon...to be rude and draw attention to himself without doing anything intelligent to earn it. Yet Christians dont like it? At no point that I'm aware of was I made spokesman for the world council of Christians. But Christianity is the faith that has killed millions of non-believers over thousands of years... Come on PRPG, what has that got to do with this question? Or, are you stating that Christians, as a group, are violent and dangerous so he is doing a public service with his non-stop childish attacks? So, in reality, what is he doing different? Wow. Because there was religious injustice we now “owe” him his petty, childish grandstanding? Ridiculous. Our mistake is, allowing ourselves to not be accepting of the differences. To discuss and profur points regarding any topic is wonderful, but to get upset when one offers points back is closed minded and rather sad. Not so long ago when my opinion was in oposition to another EMS site, you found it very offensive, and were very much opposed to my stating what you felt were inaccuracies on the subject. Yet somehow peoples feelings about their religion are less important than your feelings about that website? Many, I think, will find that logic faulty. Besides, go back through his threads and you'll see that when I was newer I sincerely participated, and even supported him on occasion, in quite a few of these discussion. Now that I've been here a few days I understand he has no interest in discussing, only preaching and attempting to upset. He's not sharing his opinion because there is no one here that is unfamiliar with his opinion on the subject of Christianity or American EMS, the only subjects he seems comfortable discussing at length. Your point here is invalid. Christians believe in Jesus, and God. Most of us find peace and joy in this belief. Most of us believe that we are unable to prove that these beliefs are valid so don't claim them as scientific fact. None of the Christians on EMTCity (to my knowledge) have publicly attempted to convert vs-eh? or have tormented him with their religious beliefs, so my question stands. Speaking of tolerance, what about my question was unfair? Why did you quote it and then not bother to answer it? I feel it is absolutely valid. Is it possible you were intolerant of my question simply because it came from a Christian? I hadn't noticed you taking offense to any of vs-eh?'s questions above. Why the joy in attempting to dissuade people away from their life long, cherished beliefs? Where do you find happiness in damaging peoples lives? Have a great day! Dwayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somedic Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Lets just let this festering turd of a thread stop here Please! Common sense dictates that: Christianity is all good. Poopoo on your weenie is gross and therefore Gays are bad/wrong/satan's delight, etc. VS spouts wood and has some type of emission every time he gets a response to his piss ant rants on here. What else needs to be said on the subject? Somedic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooger Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 The "religious" threads are always hilarious... it doesn't matter which board they are posted in they're all the same, just different people making the same arguments & arriving at the same lack of conclusion! We never learn, do we. :wink: -Easy Does It[/font:47ee87477b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eydawn Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 There is a very fine line between discussion and ranting without listening. I think (personally) that this thread as well as many others that vs-eh has started begin with discussion and inevitably end up as ranting. I'm still not quite sure how that happens! But, we all participate time after time, do we not? No likee, no clickee, no postee. Easy as that. You *know* there's always going to be someone with a different opinion than yours posting and that, from your view, they are WRONG as wrong can be. Don't let it get to you on a personal level and for goodness sake, don't let it be another stressor in your life. We as EMS deal with enough stress... places like this are where we come to relieve some of that and engage on an interpersonal and intellectual level. I learn something every time I read a long forum thread like this one. Doesn't mean it's the something that any particular person wants me to learn. Anybody else learn anything new this time (and vs-eh is an @r$e!0^e doesn't count!)? I also am curious. Vs-eh, we all have things that drive us crazy and that we passionately engage in discussion or ranting about. Why, good soul, is this one yours? It always helps to know where someone's coming from- not in the sense that it helps you destroy them or break down their arguments, but in the sense that perspective and "walking in the other person's shoes" helps you to more fully evaluate your own position and integrate it into a larger context. Wendy CO EMT-B MI EMT-B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 ERDoc asked what gives the Bible so much power. I'd say because it's written a bit like this ^. Word (so to speak), Wendy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRPGfirerescuetech Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Dwayne, your smarter than this response. I never spoke of VS's purpose, just of the result. He may have the desire to stir up BS on a regular basis, however these discussions do make people think about their faith. They dont change their opinions, but they do debate them, and debate is a necessity in life. At no point that I'm aware of was I made spokesman for the world council of Christians. and at no point did i suggest that. When referring to you, I will use the words "you, dwayne, or you sir", the word "Christian" defines a whole group of people with a similar ideaology. Come on PRPG, what has that got to do with this question? Or, are you stating that Christians, as a group, are violent and dangerous so he is doing a public service with his non-stop childish attacks? at no point was a question posed to answer. However, my point was a more "broad" one. VS points out that the legal system is using the personal faith of the leadership to jam their religious beliefs and morality down the throats of others. His bringing it up has been ridiculed by the christian membership here. That same inability to accept other opinions led to those same deaths. Also, refer to my response to Rid. Wow. Because there was religious injustice we now “owe” him his petty, childish grandstanding? Ridiculous. Grandstanding? He is sharing his opinion, and your being intolerant. His presentation of his point is deplorable, however your unaccepting of someone elses opinion on a topic, then stating your faith should be accepted. Get back on subject. Not so long ago when my opinion was in oposition to another EMS site, you found it very offensive, and were very much opposed to my stating what you felt were inaccuracies on the subject. Yet somehow peoples feelings about their religion are less important than your feelings about that website? Many, I think, will find that logic faulty. This has nothing to do with this discussion. Simply stated, Christians want people to be tolerant, yet many members of the faith use their faith to guide "morality" in the country. Lawmakers do this everyday in defining laws which guide those who dont believe in their faith. Yet you want tolerance from others? That step begins Christian tolerance of differing opinion. Thats all. For the record, I respect everyones faith, i just dislike its use in the political forum. Religion, politics, and law should NEVER cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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