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    • I totally agree with you PM - (paramedicMike).    it takes saving, possibly a company match or tuition assistance or assistance from family or a student loan.   My example was extreme on the +30K that I'm still paying back after 10 years or so but the ROI for my investment has not been returned.   My parents paid for my paramedic course which was 2400 total but I did not get a degree out of it but I already had one - it was a BA in Admin of Justice, or I was just finishing it up, can't remember that far back.  Hell I cannot remember yesterday let alone 20+ years ago how things went.  But I do remember the lifepack 5 and mast pants and how to put them on.   I'm all for paramedic degree's be they associates or bachelors.  I think for a run of the mill field medic an associates degree is appropriate but for someone who wants to be a supervisor/FTO/higher up manager then a Bachelors degree is essential.   Just my .000000002 cents as my opinion be that I no longer truly practice is really worth just that.  .0000002 cents.     I wonder what dust would say on this thread.  
    • The cost of the JCCC program you linked is under $6K for Johnson County residents and a little over $7k for other Kansas residents for the entire program (tuition information here).  That's a little cheaper than current tuition for the program from which I graduated.  (When I went there it was cheaper than current rates dictate.)  That's not an up front cost.  That's over the entire two year course of study.  It may require some budgeting (like not buying that light bar for your car and maybe a couple pair of Dickies instead of that one pair of 5.11 pants) but it can be done. In many places trade schools are through the local community college.  Cost won't be that much different. This can be done.  As mentioned up-thread Oregon already requires paramedics to have a degree and have done so for years.  As EMS education improves and, with it, the standing of EMS as it's own legitimate component of emergency medicine wages will improve. The industry needs to stop making excuses for why we can't.  We need to start advocating for why we *can*.
    • This I can't help but agree with but the thing I have to call into question is this,  our pay already sucks big donkey balls and putting a loan payment on top of our responders already meager living(wages) could put some of them into deeper hock or debt.   Do you also then embrace the programs that offer loan forgiveness (which almost no-one can qualify for - I know, I've tried to qualify for them) and saddle these providers for the next 20 years with payments that never ever ever ever ever seem to go away just so we as a profession can spout those hallowed words "our profession is a degreed profession"   there is a great meme out there that shows two men side by side one guy it shows that he has student debt, a degree where it's hard to find a job and is in debt up to his eyeballs the other guy went to trade school, has no debt or minimal debt, got a trade, and just turned off the guy in the above sentences power.     I know not a great analogy but I have 27K in student loans still after 12 years for a Masters in project management that I was given this really polished song and dance from Keller Graduate school of management that it would help me become a higher paid consultant but honestly it has not, I'm just paying 232.00 for the next 15 years.  
    • This is simply a survey for a college class of mine.  I'd appreciate it if you go through and respond to it.  It's part of a research portion of a paper.  The following link is the Google Forms survey. https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdhfi204oxOQkP1g43a09WVTajws7imwgzh_8wCjPW08MfySA/viewform?usp=pp_url
    • Not bad, Mike.  I like the composition requirement.  I like the sociology requirement.  I really, *really* like that there's an ethics component.  For an associates level program it's a good start. Ultimately, I'd like to see something like that become the entry level requirements for a BLS provider.  I'd like to see a bachelor's degree become entry level education for a paramedic.  The course of study outlined in your local program is similar to the one for the degree awarding program I completed.  (I had a computer skills class that I had to complete.)  For a bachelor's program one should, yes *should*, have to take additional classes like psychology, history, even literature and philosophy in order to complete the program. There is a benefit to a well rounded education.  In EMS we deal with every part of the population of the area in which we work.  Having a broad educational base as a foundation for the technical knowledge and skill training will only serve to help us in dealing with the very people we serve. Speaking more broadly there seems to be an increasing sense that education is somehow a bad thing.  It is not.  Education, in all it's forms, is a GOOD thing.  There is nothing wrong with leaning something new.  There is nothing wrong with increasing our knowledge base.  Having a broad educational foundation will only help not only in dealing with other people but with improving the overall functionality of society. 
    • So question, what are the true benefits of having a degree?  Not sniping but do medics truly need american history and other similar courses or can we build a EMS bachelors or Associates degree that focuses specifically on what medics(not talking about EMT's here) need to be successful.   I cannot cut and paste the screenshots here but here is the Johnson county community college paramedic curriculum for AAS in Paramedic.  here's the link - http://catalog.jccc.edu/degreecertificates/emergencymedicalscience/emergency-med-science-aas/ If this was the norm - then this might not be a bad framework   but to add all the extra's such as history, and sociology courses - it sort of loses it's luster.   just my 2 cents which is often worth less than 2 cents.  
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