PRPGfirerescuetech

ours say on the inside door of the patient compartment "911 brings EMS in *******ry County" ummm, duh. How do you think we got there...

Ill accept that. Just would need to tie in a huge push for more students to accomidate for the downturn and pad the numbers.

Then your area is lucky. Most transfer services here cant get a medic to save their a*s, even at astronomical pay rates. This is also prevelent across the region, from doing staffing models at a previous service. Relooking at the numbers, your still shorting someone. If you increase the education to I, you lose providers. These are people who had a tough enough time passing B. You need, at our current staffing models, so much of each provider. If you change the models to increase the education, you will lose providers. (albeit not competent ones, but this is a discussion about handling the workload). The question is, do we shoot ourselves in the proverbial as* by leaving ourselves with not enough people to handle an increasing workload?

No medics are stuck on transfer cars because they have to be there, many times, its because thats where they end up after a long career in "EMS" as you term it. Im not sure removing an entire cert level from the system is the answer. Even if you reeducate them, its semantics, because your taking the BLS pool, and renaming them intermediates. You still need to staff your transfer cars. People need to get them home, so they can call 911 again, and go back. As much as its not "EMS" to you, its still an intregal part of the EMS system. You have to consider that.

So if you eliminate EMT B's, then you need to replace them in "911 EMS" as you term it...therefore still creating a shortage....

I see the comparison, but it didnt go from a one month to one year course, with things as in disarray as they are.

So were going to strip down the staffing levels across the country so we can higher educate all, ,...but then we lower staffing levels, and put providers in a faster pace (to attempt to meet demands), which will stop them from being able to treat patients to the higher level you just trained them at?

Interesting thought just occured to me when reading the posts. follow me on this... From a perspective of system management, we need X number of EMT's and X number of paramedics to staff X number of ambulances to move X number of patients each day. Correct? Many people on the board, myself included are for increasing educational levels for all providers and weeding out the idiots of our profession. that being said, if we were to increase the educational levels for all providers, and weed out said idiots, wouldnt we lose a fair amount of EMT's and Paramedics? So, therefore, when decreasing the level of idiots in this industry, we therefore shortchange ourselves on the number of providers needed to handle the workload in the country. We are at critical shortages already. Do we really want to make that worse? It strikes me that their is a balance that has to be maintained...but reallly, the question remains, can you really weed out providers, when you already dont have enough? Im curious of the consensus... Apologies for the scatterbrained nature of the post, im reaaalllyy....reaallllyyy...tired. Warm Regards and Happy Holidays to all, PRPG

*walks away to look for tape* while I look... the person below me has ridden an emu before...

No, I'd kill someone if they did that. You want to talk about medical providers taking lives?... ...anyway (back to my previous thread) The person below me has woken up naked in a public place......

I agree to a point, but the problem is deeper than that. Our current educational system is poor at best, and is the primary reason why the service doesnt receive the respect it desires. From a acedemic perspective, lets look at where we stand. The acedemic model has a...hierarchy of sorts, with different classifications of educational programs. The model, in its traditional sense, is as follows. High School, Trade School, College Associates, College Bachelors, College masters, College PH D. Now, obviously, there are different variants, and sub chapters of this model, but when broken down, here are the basics. Our current educational system relies on a pre established curriculum with no acedemic basis, and is "generally" equivelent to a trade school program. Loosely interpreted, any 19 year old stoned reject can sucessfully pass a prehospital EMT-basic training program. Scary thought. That being said, this also relates to how were viewed within the medical community. Simply stated, a nurse with a BSN, 4 years education, two years of solid clinical experience (on day one), etc etc etc is certainly not going to have the same respect for any individual who walked through a one month course, got his golden ticket, and skipped his way to "oz". Also, our current paramedic program ( 12 to 24 months, variant on state and region) still pales in comparison to any and all of your peers in medicine. Again, same thing. The current EMT-P program is set up equivelent to a trade school program. A few steps more intense yes, but still a trade school equivelent. This says nothing for physicians, who have spent YEARS longer in different educational programs. Now, in regards to your post. Your right, would additional courses and course requirements weed out rejects and improve the overall quality of the provider. But.... .....will calculus and organic chemistry be helpful? Eh, maybe not as much as say...Spanish...A and P.....Biology based curriculums..... ....as long as the curriculum is filled with courses that are applicable to the specific degree program, then yes...faaabulous idea. Something weve discussed here 10 times over. Just lets not encourage tossing in useless education to numb minds and weed out idiots, lets use the time more wisely. (SIDE NOTE) ....ummm.....vs....im not drunk bro.... Warm regards and happy holidays to all... PRPG

I will go to the grave disagreeing with you on this premise. But we do agree on one thing. Ideally several good years of basic time are a good idea prior to going to medic school. But, these years have to be years learning decent habits. Your correct, that is sadly rare. Warm regards and happy holidays, PRPG

yeah...thank god for penecillin..... (im kidding ladies...really i am...i promise....oh hell whatever) anyway...the person below me has a glass eye they tell no one about....

E - Strippel is right. If I had to guess, AMR is doing 911 for Salem NJ, and listing their field offices in AC and Phil with it. As a provider in the area, allow me to say...avoid AMR around here, no money, respect, or work is coming their way, and the air is getting thin...they are doing periodic special events, and are limited to that. I know nothing of AMR elsewhere... PRPG

As it does for all of us. I want everyone to look deeply within themselves, and ask... "Is their any amount of money I could be paid, to be willing to do this job? " I think many would be suprised who would say yep. Word. PRPG

Would it be beneficial? Yeah probibly. But, just a thought. Talk with your SWAT commander, and see if you cant work a joint effort with he / she / shim. To actually work within the premise of a true TEMS unit will make the training really make a difference. ...and most importantly...are you hiring? Im looking for a change of scenery...

Good luck, and be ready to travel. I took CONTOMS in Tennesee....

*cough* APLS * cough* But if that isnt available....the consensus from students that pass through what classes ive held, is PEPP...although several have recently stated that both suck...

A job is a job. I will do it to the best of my personal ability. If my job is to treat and transport the sick and injured, I will do it, and do it well. If my job is to serve up some Big Macs at the local Micky'd's...I will do it, and do it well. If my job is to clean up horsesh*t after the local 4H parade, there will be clean streets. And if my job is to administer a fatal dose of methyl-ethyl death...i'd do that too... Would I take that job in the first place? Id clean up aforementioned horsesh*t if you paid me enough... But thats just me. PRPG

word.

ummm...no buddha. No no no no no gaaaaa!!! Visual gaaaaaa!!! anyway....enough of that. The person below me has picked up the same patient 4 times in a 12 hour shift...

Committing harm is. Threatening to committ harm is not. Second statement is invalid, law and medicine should not, and can not act on what a psych patient "might" do. If we do, we'd hog tie everybody, "snow" them, and bring them in at gun-point. Obviously has to be boundaries.

One of the services I work for is perpetually arguing this fact. Regardless of circumstance, every psych call puts EMS between a rock and a hard place. How each job is handled is completely intrinsic on the local PD, the preferences of the EBH crisis center, the policies of your local EBH intake unit, and local hospital preferences. A suggestion to all. -Find out if your local EBH intake unit requires medical evaluation prior to admission. Some do. Some dont. This variant will answer many questions of the transport means of your psych patient. -Find out your local police Departments policies. -Many emergency rooms are more equipped than others in dealing with psych patients. Know where to go. Most importantly, know your behavioral health laws. Many are rather complicated in nature. Know your rights and responsibilities. These vary state by state. Please remember this. EMS providers can do nothing for psych patients more than any police officer can do. Err on the side of caution, and DOCUMENT heavily. These calls are a high level of concern by many administrators, due to the level of liability invoked by the service, and most specifically, the provider. If your service doesnt have a policy regarding these matters, talk to your boss. Talk to their boss. Arm yourself with information, you are only helping yourself. ...and if all else fails, dart em' like a rhino and hope for the best. Be safe to all, PRPG

Guilty...yet again. The person above me lives in the woods.... The person below me has woken up naked and confused in the woods, after a rough night of drinking.

Guilty! :cheers: The person below me has a odd infatuation with midgets?