Fee for service woes.

[Just Plain Ruff]

10K for an ambulance ride? Holy cow... maybe I need to start a service in you neighborhood

Just a number I threw out. My wifes ambulance bill for her car wreck was 1800 and all they did was put a collar, backboard, saline lock and pulse ox/oxygen. 1994 costs

My wifes ambulance bill for the pregnancy was 3600, IV, monitor, some meds, oxygen, mileage, pulse ox, 12 lead. this was in 2009 dollars

[Kaisu]

Just a number I threw out. My wifes ambulance bill for her car wreck was 1800 and all they did was put a collar, backboard, saline lock and pulse ox/oxygen. 1994 costs

My wifes ambulance bill for the pregnancy was 3600, IV, monitor, some meds, oxygen, mileage, pulse ox, 12 lead. this was in 2009 dollars

That is very expensive. We have a fee schedule here. BLS transports and ALS transports are the same price. There is no additional charge for procedures or supplies. It is a flat rate. The only variable is mileage. The rate is 1300$ and we are in the top 20% for AZ.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Just watched CNN news anchor grill the county commissioner about this policy. She used the word compassion and morality and all that.

It also came out that 200 of the 900 homeowners in the county don't pay the membership.

The couple who lost their home also knew about the fee but decided to not pay it. So instead of paying 75 per year they are paying 75 per night at the local hotel. Talk about cost benefit analysis gone wrong. Risk analysis at it's finest.

That is very expensive. We have a fee schedule here. BLS transports and ALS transports are the same price. There is no additional charge for procedures or supplies. It is a flat rate. The only variable is mileage. The rate is 1300$ and we are in the top 20% for AZ.

Yeah but with insurance it cost us 100 bucks each time. The ambulance provider took a significant write off like most providers do when they accept insurance. So in essence it really didn't cost 3800 for the full ride, it was more like 1100.

But I can imagine that someone who paid cash for the bill would have been stuck with the 3800.

Thank goodness for insurance

[romneyfor2012]

Same as everything else in medicine, you bill the insurance company $1000, so you will collect $200

[Richard B the EMT]

While I know this won't fly, enact some local "Certificate of Occupancy" law stating one cannot occupy a dwelling unless there is a paid fire insurance "rider", much like one cannot legally drive an uninsured car. Having said that, I have something on my car insurance that covers me if I am in an accident with an uninsured or under insured vehicle.

FDNY history, now: In the days of full volunteer fire service in the City of New York (read that as Manhattan), the companies would respond, but would stand and let it burn if the building didn't have a "fire marker" from an insurance company. On the other hand, the VFDs would actually fight each other, sabatage each other's rigs to enable themselves to be the department fighting the fire, as the insurance companies paid the departments for fire fighting, as well as the property owners for their losses.

Around the time of the War Between the States, covered somewhat in the movie "Gangs Of New York", Mr. William "Boss" Tweed was prominant in using thugs to fight the thugs from other fire companies. Indeed, in the movie, "Boss" Tweed actually drove the fanciest steam pumper company responding to a fire.

[Bernhard]

While I know this won't fly, enact some local "Certificate of Occupancy" law stating one cannot occupy a dwelling unless there is a paid fire insurance "rider", much like one cannot legally drive an uninsured car. Having said that, I have something on my car insurance that covers me if I am in an accident with an uninsured or under insured vehicle.

What if I drive through that city and my car gets on fire? Would they let burn it down simply because I don't have a membership? What if it's a mobile home?

The other thing is: is it really enjoyable for the fire fighters to watch something burning down? What are their feelings? Wouldn't it be at least a good training? And: are they really legally/morally able or even willing deep within their heart to decide so? It IS a very emotional thing watching someones property going in flames.

3rd thought (from someone who's tax euros and mandatory social fees pay the public risk management AKA police, fire, disaster and EMS): isn't it considered environment pollution to let it simply burn, including all the stuff inside?

On the other hand, the VFDs would actually fight each other, sabatage each other's rigs to enable themselves to be the department fighting the fire, as the insurance companies paid the departments for fire fighting, as well as the property owners for their losses.

So we know why it's named fire FIGHTING.

[Just Plain Ruff]

What if I drive through that city and my car gets on fire? Would they let burn it down simply because I don't have a membership? What if it's a mobile home?

The other thing is: is it really enjoyable for the fire fighters to watch something burning down? What are their feelings? Wouldn't it be at least a good training? And: are they really legally/morally able or even willing deep within their heart to decide so? It IS a very emotional thing watching someones property going in flames.

3rd thought (from someone who's tax euros and mandatory social fees pay the public risk management AKA police, fire, disaster and EMS): isn't it considered environment pollution to let it simply burn, including all the stuff inside?

So we know why it's named fire FIGHTING.

Bernhard, the policy is in the rural county area only. If your car or mobile home catch on fire in the city then the fire department comes since they are funded through the city.

And I will bet that it is not an enjoyable feeling to watch this and not be able to do anything about it. I'm sure it's heart wrenching to see it.

I have no answers to this other than if you own property in this county, pay your 75 bucks. You now have two nationally televised events on CNN and FOX that prove that the county will not put your house out if you don't pay the fee. If you are willing to take the risk then don't come bitching and crying that your house burned down. You knew the risk albeit a small risk, the risk was there.

But in all reality by the time that the fire department really got there in most counties, your trailer would already be fully involved due to their flammable material and tinderbox design.

[craig]

as i said what has it got to do with EMS

it is a tosser thing, if they will not do the job they are paid for or volunteered for they should be roasted (no pun intended) by the media

here in Aus all insurances have the fire levy calculated into them and this partially funds the fire department, govt funding does the rest

[paramedicmike]

Any areas out there where the FD bills homeowners insurance, or the homeowners outright, for services such as this? I know some areas (at least around here) are starting to bill auto insurance for responses to MVCs.

I'm not arguing against personal responsibility for situations like this. There's little way they couldn't have known the chance they were taking by not paying up. It falls back to "you pay your money you take your chances". (Or... don't pay your money...) But there still has to be a way around the fact that they were just standing there.

as i said what has it got to do with EMS

That, my friend, is why it's in the "Non-EMS Discussion" forum.

[Just Plain Ruff]

That, my friend, is why it's in the "Non-EMS Discussion" forum.

But it's in EMTCity so I guess that's why he has a issue with it being discussed.