Should EMS wages be call based?

[DwayneEMTP]

You know Siff, you can complain all you want about the disparity and unfairness of the system, but you as well chose to play in the game. Does it suck? Yeah...I can see why you hate it...

I can't comment too much, as I don't understand how your system works, or who should get paid as much as anyone else.

I can say that it would look bad if I ran my ass off day in and day out and then saw another medic that runs a few calls a month get paid as much as I do. It would, but it would be bullshit if it did as we all make our own decisions. You need to decide how much money is enough for you, and what you're willing to do for it.

Also, you gush over the people that have come before you and have made your job and wages what they are yet tell Mobey what a douche he is for doing the same, as you see it as coming out of your pocket. Where do you think that the money came from that increased the EMS standards in your area? From fairies?

And to equate a statement that remote medics likely do more critical care, long term transports to, "So I guess city medics are morons compared to you!" is just silly...

I hate any system that pays based on a set salary. Every position should be merit based..but that's not the case, so we work with what we have.

And the two gigs are so completely different. You are paid to run calls in the city, where rural areas are more buying an insurance policy. They don't expect daily performance, but excellent performance in the rare times it's needed.

Pretty simple solution to your anger really...pack up and move to a rural place. Make the same money for doing much less work and all should be right with the world?

Dwayne

[mobey]

I can't comment too much, as I don't understand how your system works, or who should get paid as much as anyone else.

Our system is not unique, just comment on the principal of paying based on call volume

Dwayne:

I can say that it would look bad if I ran my ass off day in and day out and then saw another medic that runs a few calls a month get paid as much as I do.

And the two gigs are so completely different. You are paid to run calls in the city, where rural areas are more buying an insurance policy. They don't expect daily performance, but excellent performance in the rare times it's needed.

You're doing it again..... Starting typing before forming a solid opinion, therefore coming very close to contradicting yourself!

Also, you gush over the people that have come before you and have made your job and wages what they are yet tell Mobey what a douche he is for doing the same, as you see it as coming out of your pocket. Where do you think that the money came from that increased the EMS standards in your area?

Must say that in this job I am at now I:

Placed the call to the union and got them in

Did all negotiations myself and settled a contract

Convinced the employer to go ALS

Budgeted ALS, ordered all equipment, stocked the rigs, trained the staff, and scheduled the inspection for license upgrade

I am curious as to what exactly Siff as an individual has done to earn these "perks" she is enjoying?

I hate any system that pays based on a set salary. Every position should be merit based...

Care to explain?

Pretty simple solution to your anger really...pack up and move to a rural place. Make the same money for doing much less work and all should be right with the world?

Don't make me fly to Mongolia and smack you

[BushyFromOz]

We are paid for what we know, and what we may be asked to do, not how many times we physically do it.

[DwayneEMTP]

...Our system is not unique, just comment on the principal of paying based on call volume..

I can't, as I'm not educated enough in the different forms that this may take to give a valid opinion. I would never do it, unless the compensation per call was big and the area was known to produce a lot of calls, and the service quality high. The only people that I know that do pay per call runs here are vollies. I've never heard of anyone making a living doing it. And I've never seen an area where even one of my requirements would be met.

...Dwayne:

I can say that it would look bad if I ran my ass off day in and day out and then saw another medic that runs a few calls a month get paid as much as I do.

And the two gigs are so completely different. You are paid to run calls in the city, where rural areas are more buying an insurance policy. They don't expect daily performance, but excellent performance in the rare times it's needed.

You're doing it again..... Starting typing before forming a solid opinion, therefore coming very close to contradicting yourself!

I don't see how. What you didn't include in your quote is that though I don't find myself above falling victim to such thoughts, that should I do so, it would be bullshit. I decide where I'll work, for how long, and how much I'll need to be paid to do so. I'm not a victim of my employment, but also not above petty jealousies either.

...I hate any system that pays based on a set salary. Every position should be merit based...

Care to explain?

How can I excel in a system like that? Why should I be anchored to you if I am more motivated and better educated? Or you to me? And please don't say that it's because EMS is so different from other jobs that there are no objectives/subjective methods to measure 'better.' (Don't make me come up to Canada and slap the shit out of you! (Yeah, stolen from below))

The free enterprise system says that anyone can pay anyone as much as they want as long as it's above minimum wage.Beyond that people should be able to succeed or fail as individuals.

Fire, most EMS systems, and in fact most other entities that have failed to become powerhouses and end up being full of old douche bags who's pay based on, primarily, longevity instead of merit. In other words your entire goal in life only has to be to not get fired and you get to succeed at the same level, and often above that, of the strongest, smartest person on the roster.

At my last gig a full time position came open opposite of my temporary position. The medic that was offered, and accepted, the position had never really been anywhere, nor done anything significant in EMS, and had never treated a clinical patient before getting the permanent position on that vessel. I don't know him well, but I think that he's a good guy.

I've got a pretty fat resume, had worked my ass off and helped us keep some work and perhaps get some new work in my last assignment for the same company. He was given the job instead of me based solely on the fact that he was sitting at home while I was working

He sent me an email saying, "Hey! I got the job!" and I sent one to the company that I now work for and said, "I'd like to accept your offer as I'm no longer a good fit with my present company." Not because I was angry, but because it was the last straw that showed me that you couldn't succeed in this company on merit. It had to be who you know instead of what. And if you're willing to sit home unemployed and available waiting for the phone to ring. And that's truly ok with me...as I have a right to choose to make different decisions.

At my previous company everyone makes the same money for the same position which has led, in my opinion, excluding myself, to all of the best medics leaving and going to companies that understand the responsibilities of the position.

Eric, the new member here is one of 4-6 medics that I worked with in my previous company that actually wanted to do medicine. He worked hard every day, happy, professional, and has now landed a really good gig, but because he won the "Can you fly tomorrow?" lottery, not because he's a rockstar medic as it should have been.

Out of the other hundred plus that I worked with, nearly all were happy to sit on their asses and wear their remote medic shirts to the bar and get shitfaced. The reason that they were happy to do that is that they knew that there was no chance that getting up early, or doing good medicine, or trying to represent the company well was going to gain them anything at all. You needed to be near headquarters where being very visible to the powers that be was possible to get any type of serious promotions. Their more realistic option was to avoid getting fired until a real medic did something that got him/her a raise, in which case they would all get one too.

That doesn't hurt my feelings, I just have no desire to participate in a place where me and the douche who's impotence killed the baby are seen as equals simply because we have the same cert. I don't enjoy it, I can't succeed there, and in my experience all of these types of businesses end up being populated by unhappy, below average underachievers because all of those that like to excel have left. See?

...Pretty simple solution to your anger really...pack up and move to a rural place. Make the same money for doing much less work and all should be right with the world?

Don't make me fly to Mongolia and smack you

Hold the phone...surely it's not your contention that being on call is equivalent to running 8-10 calls/day? I'm on board brother, and I know that being on call isn't a zero, but we have to be realists. I'm on call 24/7 x 28 days in a row, so does that mean that I do more work than any of you? Heh...trust me when I say that that is unlikely...

Of course I'm comparing it to the average rural medic doing the average rural medic duties, not all of that shit that you've just come through. We need to try our best to stick to apples and apples. I know it's tough as I can see you getting your claws out just from the tone of your posts...just sayin'..

Though you may be too involved to see it, and Siff isn't far from ranting about how all of these problems are because we guys can't get a hardon, you have to admit that if you look at it from her perspective it's not difficult to see her point. I don't agree with it, but I believe that if you truly can't see anything in what she ways, then you're not really looking very hard.

Dwayne

[Siffaliss]

Pretty simple solution to your anger really...pack up and move to a rural place. Make the same money for doing much less work and all should be right with the world?

Dwayne

If only it were that easy. I like most of the work I do in the city, just not particularly fond of who I do it for. My higher wage does not currently carry over to my rural position. I get paid almost $9/hour less but I go there because I also enjoy the people and change of pace.

I am curious as to what exactly Siff as an individual has done to earn these "perks" she is enjoying?

Well seeing as how most of it started while I was probably still in elementary school, I didn't have a chance to do much. It's been going on longer than either one of us has been in the field. I went to meetings as much as I could to stay informed and provide my vote when it was called for.

Hold the phone...surely it's not your contention that being on call is equivalent to running 8-10 calls/day? I'm on board brother, and I know that being on call isn't a zero, but we have to be realists. I'm on call 24/7 x 28 days in a row, so does that mean that I do more work than any of you? Heh...trust me when I say that that is unlikely...

!

Though you may be too involved to see it, and Siff isn't far from ranting about how all of these problems are because we guys can't get a hardon, you have to admit that if you look at it from her perspective it's not difficult to see her point. I don't agree with it, but I believe that if you truly can't see anything in what she ways, then you're not really looking very hard.

Thank you.

[Tactical Spork]

Should EMS wages be call based? No.

First, from a Canadian perspective I think many of the medics trying to make a living on pager pay in British Columbia would disagree with this premise. From a broader context call based pay, to me anyway, sounds like a volly squad setup. If you are at work then you should get paid.

Yes, I will agree, to a point, that this can cause 'friction'. You run your ass of while the other guy sleeps all night without turning a wheel. This happens. As for rural vs. urban, low vs. high call volume it doesn't matter. Base salary on a person's skill regardless of call volume.

A skilled person is of value to their patient as well as an organization. Be it a guy sitting on an industrial site for 24/7 waiting for something to happen - if something does happen they will be happy to have a skilled provider. To having an experienced person doing 911 calls.

I think what this boils down to is EMS education and training. If you have an ALS provider with training comparable to an associates degree, well, then you will need to pay them regardless of the setting they will be employed in.

[JPINFV]

How about being paid based on a percent of money brought in by the calls? The so called "keep what you kill" method. Longer distance, more mileage charge, more pay. The drunk 20 something without insurance that doesn't end up paying his bill? Too bad, so sad, no pay for that run. Now it's paid based on run, severity, and length of the call.

Oh, and if those rural guys have it so great, why don't you move out there? Alternatively, is this something along the lines of the grass always being greener on the other side?

Edited October 23, 2011 by JPINFV

[DwayneEMTP]

JP, the problem I see with that theory is, first, you begin to have medical decision significantly influenced my monetary concerns, and next you have Bob and Leroy fighting over Ms whoever's call because she always turns into a transport.

That is worst case scenario of course, but as humans, particularly where money is concerned, we seem to take the low road too often.

Dwayne

[Tactical Spork]

I wonder if Mother, Jugs, and Speed is on Netflix? I think getting paid a percentage of your call would be a bad idea - for ambulance calls. I should mention that for a few industrial contracts I did get paid a day rate, and a percentage of the invoiced cost. Now, I see that as different as I am there to provide medical coverage so a company can make money be it drilling, mining, or whatever.

[RaceMedic]

Yes Mother, Juggs, and Speed is available but only on dvd not on streaming yet ...