National Registry impending "Smackdown"

[NREMT-Basic]

Why on earth would you say medics arent licensed. Im not totally up on EMS law but I dont think an EMT or Medic can practice without a DOPH license in any state. Why do you think we all take those tests.

The single organizing (if we can go so far as to call it that) among EMS providers in the NREMT. The best thing that could happen to EMS is that all state tests and licensures are done away with and the NREMT standards and "protocols" are revised, made more rigorous and we all get our licenses that way. It would eliminate the need for reciprocity agreements, establish parody among the states and within them and I truly believe it would raise the standard of those working the streets. I rarely work street EMS these days having shifted to Disaster Medicine, but we even have discrepancies in IMERT because some of us that are BLS have broader protocols than our partners from different EMS regions. I can start a combitube and give push glucagon, other members from other regions cannot.

If the NREMT is the nexis of a conspiracy, its one I would be in favor of.

[Scaramedic]

Why on earth would you say medics arent licensed. Im not totally up on EMS law but I dont think an EMT or Medic can practice without a DOPH license in any state. Why do you think we all take those tests.

It differs from state to state Basic. Some states like Oklahoma consider it a license others do not, they just consider it a certification. It does not matter if it issued by a DOPH it is just a cert.

Peace,

Marty

[captainstandup]

CERTIFICATION

Certification is a statement or declaration that one has completed a course of study, passed an examination, or otherwise met specified criteria for certification.

Certification is not a permission to act, but rather a statement of completion or qualification.

Certification is a private matter, issued by a private organization. It does not involve the police power of the state, and is not a state privilege.

Certification is based on the premise that there is a right to work. Certification only provides the consumer with more information about a practitioner. It also gives practitioners a way to increase their competency through a course of study and exams.

The purpose of certification is mainly to set standards, educate practitioners and inform the public. It may, however, be used to control entry if combined with state laws. See the section below on 'combinations'.

LICENSING

A license is a permission to do something that otherwise is forbidden. In most cases, a license is required or mandatory for engaging in that activity. For instance, a drivers license is considered mandatory to drive a car on the public roads. An exception is that a house may be built by someone who is not a licensed contractor.

A license is given by the government, and is a government privilege. It therefore presumes that the activity in question is a privilege, not a right. The privilege may be bestowed by the federal, state or local government.

A license involves the police power of the state. That is, if one violates the licensing law, either by acting without a license, or failing to uphold the rules governing the license privilege, one is subject to prosecution under the civil or criminal laws of the governing body.

The purpose of licensing, whether admitted or not, is to restrict entry and control a profession or activity.

Nurses are licensed and practice by virtue of that license. Paramedics must, in most states, work under the auspices of a physician's license.

[captainstandup]

By the way what is a "Nexis"

[Just Plain Ruff]

I have to disagree with you.

First, it should never be offered at home as that destroys all validity of the testing process. How do you say one person can and one person cant, what parameters do you use to justify this geographic problem? Then you eventually have to allow all or some unscrupulous characters may find ways around it. The CBT definitely needs to stay in a testing center.

Second, I am sorry if you can not find it within yourself to drive a few hours in any direction to get to a testing center. If it is not worth it to you, then how bad do you really want it? Why do you feel such an entitlement, that one should make it as easy as possible for you or not have it at all?

As far as using CBT for recert, I would rather drive for an entire day and test than sit or commute 4-5 days in a row for a refresher. I mean we are talking once every two years here, you have adequate time to save and prepare for it.

As far as intial testing, again if there is no testing center close by, then how the heck did they get enough people together for a medic class to begin with? You are way too rural...lol. But lets say they did get a class and there was no testing center. This is where the NR should consider mobile testing labs. Kind of like a Bloodmobile, only for testing instead. Travel to these outlying areas with plenty of advance notice, and all people within certain mile radius drive to the mobile testing center.

AK where did you get the idea that I won't drive to take a test? I said no such thing. As a matter of fact, I drove 200 miles 2 x per week for 8 weeks to take the only offered paramedic refresher course.

I also during my stint as a regional faculty member for ACLS I traveled over 200 miles or even more to provide education to people who needed it.

I put out the testing at home method since some entities offer at home testing but I don't think that would work. It does take the legitimacy out of this type of testing but as a matter of fact I'm not sure I wouldn't put it past the NREMT to do such a thing.

the optimum thing would be for arrangements to be made with local schools to provide proctors for the tests and have them monitor the test takers when they are taking the test.

The legitimacy would be preserved and it would benefit both NREMT as well as the test taker.

I agree, that the requirements that are there are not that great and they should be provided by your service or if your service cannot provide them on their own then band together with several services to provide education to the EMS workers. 2-4 hours a month equals 24 to 48 hours per year. If you follow the registry you should be able to fulfill your requirements without any problem if you follow the 2-4 contact hours per month. You have to add the ACLS, PALS, ABLS, BTLS and CPR and whatever other classes you want to take but it's doable and actually pretty easily doable.

[Ridryder 911]

Actually, if one would take time out and read the Registry News Letter, and even their web site the NREMT has been pushing for license levels.

YES there is a difference between certification and license, it is NOT just semantics.

Myself and others fought hard to overcome being licensed over certified. Definitely considered more professional among healthcare providers and again read the definition of each... accountability.

Also NREMT does NOT have protocols or standards ! They are a TESTING AGENCY ONLY !

For more clarification, NOT all EMS agencies are managed through state health departments, most are or should be.. but some are an independent branch or placed under different division.

I definitely do agree a formal "standard test" should be developed. I do NOT agree on a standardized of practice, especially if it would allow a basic to do more than "basic skills". I believe advanced levels should be based on the local medical community needs with more scrutiny. Just like other health practitioners based upon state requirements. So areas can be better served upon geography, the type of medical communities involved, and special needs that may need to be addressed.

r/r 911

[akflightmedic]

Ruff,

you are taking it out of context. When I said "cant find it within yourself", I was not implying you but rather the people who complain about such a thing or think they should not have to do it. When I use that phraseology, most often times I am not directing at the poster but rather just a blanket term for all to whom it applies. They know who they are when they read it.

[NREMT-Basic]

CERTIFICATION

Certification is a statement or declaration that one has completed a course of study, passed an examination, or otherwise met specified criteria for certification.

Certification is not a permission to act, but rather a statement of completion or qualification.

Certification is a private matter, issued by a private organization. It does not involve the police power of the state, and is not a state privilege.

Certification is based on the premise that there is a right to work. Certification only provides the consumer with more information about a practitioner. It also gives practitioners a way to increase their competency through a course of study and exams.

The purpose of certification is mainly to set standards, educate practitioners and inform the public. It may, however, be used to control entry if combined with state laws. See the section below on 'combinations'.

LICENSING

A license is a permission to do something that otherwise is forbidden. In most cases, a license is required or mandatory for engaging in that activity. For instance, a drivers license is considered mandatory to drive a car on the public roads. An exception is that a house may be built by someone who is not a licensed contractor.

A license is given by the government, and is a government privilege. It therefore presumes that the activity in question is a privilege, not a right. The privilege may be bestowed by the federal, state or local government.

A license involves the police power of the state. That is, if one violates the licensing law, either by acting without a license, or failing to uphold the rules governing the license privilege, one is subject to prosecution under the civil or criminal laws of the governing body.

The purpose of licensing, whether admitted or not, is to restrict entry and control a profession or activity.

Nurses are licensed and practice by virtue of that license. Paramedics must, in most states, work under the auspices of a physician's license.

We all know that we operate under a physician's license, but the fact remains that if you had no license yourself, you wouldnt be able to get as far as operating under his. If you just received certification and tried to practice, you would be charge with PRACTICING MEDICINE WITHOUT A LICENSE.

My wallet card says that it is a "permit/authorization/LICENSE"to function under the EMS Act of the State of Illinois.

[Dustdevil]

Wow, just shows you how clueless people are about the history of their own "profession." For the first fifteen years I was in EMS, you had to take a refresher and re-test every two (later changed to 4) years. This whole CEU thing has only been around since the late 1980s.

I don’t like this new policy either, but for totally different reasons that the original posters. I don’t like it because it is just too easy. Not only should medics be re-testing to re-certify every few years, but the test should get progressively harder each time, forcing medics to actually advance their education, not just maintain eighty-percent of the entry-level knowledge from their initial course. Anybody who is sweating the prospect of meeting that bar is just a very sad practitioner, indeed. It’s too easy. Hell, I’m surprised all you people aren’t praising this new policy! After all, you already know it all, right? You don’t need no more edumacation, right? So, just take the ENTRY LEVEL test and show them! A hundred and ten dollars? You think that is more expensive than forty hours of continuing education? Think again! It’s a good deal! An especially good deal for the NR, because now THEY are making that $110 instead of the CE providers.

This is where we should be setting a standard ahead of all other medical professions, not just playing 'monkey see-monkey do.' This is something that gives us credibility because people are forced to maintain a verifiable level of competence. There is no downside to this at all.

It is more important to us than to the rest of the professions because -- unlike other medical professionals -- an overwhelming majority of our registrants do not practise professionally or on a full-time basis. Once EMS is actually a real, career medical profession, instead of just a patch for volunteer wankers, this won't be an issue anymore. But for now, it's a huge one.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Dust when I started in ems in missouri, our requirements were CEU's, then a written test every 2 years for relicensure.

in fact there was a test study guide that had been compiled from previous test applicants where it had over 200 questions on it from what test takers remembered.

Yeah it was cheating but we were young.

Now it's completely different and easier to get relicensed in MO.