National Registry impending "Smackdown"

[elymorse1]

Dust your comment of volunteer wankers is way out of line. If that is the was you feel about volunteers then it is time you get out of the field. With out the volunteers out there the job of the paid people would be even harder,

[Dustdevil]

Dust your comment of volunteer wankers is way out of line.

Oooh! A direct hit!

If that is the was you feel about volunteers then it is time you get out of the field.

Done. Shall I take the other million paid providers who feel the same way with me?

With out the volunteers out there the job of the paid people would be even harder,

No. There would just be a lot more paid people.

[jsadin]

Oh man, saw that coming.

[paramedicmike]

Dust your comment of volunteer wankers is way out of line. If that is the was you feel about volunteers then it is time you get out of the field. With out the volunteers out there the job of the paid people would be even harder,

I suggest you do a search of the forums. This topic has been addressed time and again. I think, if you take the time to research the topic and read the arguments presented, you'll find that not only is Dustdevil correct in both position and in the number of people who agree with him, but that you might just take a peek outside of that sheltered, insulated box into which you've stuffed that brain of yours.

...or would that just be too scary?

-be safe

[Just Plain Ruff]

Dust your comment of volunteer wankers is way out of line. If that is the was you feel about volunteers then it is time you get out of the field. With out the volunteers out there the job of the paid people would be even harder,

ok, ely, how long have you been reading these forums? If it was any longer than 1 day you would have seen the other posts by many of us here who dislike volunteers, not the volunteers themselves but the concept of volunteering for EMS.

If you have not been lurking here then we will give you the benefit of the doubt and allow you to prove to us that you really know what the heck you are complaining about.

Please tell us why volunteers are the best thing since sliced bread? We've heard every other person here try to convince us that volunteers are a good thing, so let's hear your reasons.

Some reasons I've read and also held

1. Volunteers give their services away for free thereby taking jobs away that should be paid

2. If you do it for free, you get what you pay for

3. Volunteers are not available 100% of the time, whereas a paid service will be available 100% of the time

those are just the top three I can name right now.

Come on, please tell us why volunteers are so great or was the comment to Dust just simply to get in chat?

[captainstandup]

Hypothetical situation:

A) Your non EMS family members who live four miles from the nearest rescue / fire station are eating dinner when one becomes unresponsive and pulseless. 911 is called and they wait for help. Volunteer squad members rush to their building to retrieve a vehicle with defibrillator then rush to the scene. Elapsed time likely to be 8 to 15 minutes in the best of circumstances.

B)Your non EMS family members who live four miles from the nearest rescue / fire station are eating dinner when one becomes unresponsive and pulseless. Crew on duty gets call for service, gets in the ambulance drives to the scene defibrillates the patient. Elapsed time 5 1/2 minutes.

This could be altered to be a fire call or any other emergency situation.

It is generally accepted that a person in V-Fib or pulseless V-tach has a reduction in survivability of roughly 10% per minute until defibrillation is delivered. (10 min = 100% dead) Furthermore it is generally accepted that a person in respiratory arrest has approx 6 min in the best case before irreversible brain damage / brain death occurs.

I haven't mentioned anything about paid or non-paid up to this point. I believe that in America most volunteer services consist of unmanned stations. This is no fault of their own, its simply the nature of being a volunteer service. Volunteer services rely on the goodness of their personnel to donate precious time away from family to provide a service to the community.

It would be asking a great deal from a volunteer to consistently donate 12 consecutive hours during the week when they have already worked 40 or more hours on their job. This is especially hard on those with small children or elderly parents needing assistance. Furthermore it would be virtually impossible to staff the agency on weekday days as this is when most volunteer folks work on their jobs.

Training and experience are also issues worthy of discussion. Paid personnel are often more available to attend training and inservice opportunities and simply by nature of their being paid to be on duty 2080 hours per year or more they have many more opportunities to practice skills than the volunteer provider. Furthermore administration can more effectively require compliance to training policies when it pertains to the individuals livelihood.

I personally know volunteers who are among the best prehospital providers in the nation, but these folks are dedicated beyond the norm. The sacrifices they make in order to remain current on ALS topics and skills are very high, sometimes at a huge cost to their families. On the other hand I also personally know paid providers who are lazy and consistently do the very minimum to keep their job. These folks treat trade journals and text books like superman reacting to kryptonite and must be forced to attend training sessions. These are among the worst pre-hospital folks, choosing reruns of south park or sleeping in a recliner at base over a learning opportunity.

Finally, and i'm sure you are glad I arrived at finally, I don't believe professionalism and ability are entirely related to whether a person is paid or not. I believe if we are going to continue relying on volunteers in America they must be available to respond immediately from the station and must be held to the same standards of the best paid personnel. As for the worst paid personnel, they have a way of thinning themselves out over time and are hopefully replaced by higher quality providers.

[CBEMT]

B)Your non EMS family members who live four miles from the nearest rescue / fire station are eating dinner when one becomes unresponsive and pulseless. Crew on duty gets call for service, gets in the ambulance drives to the scene defibrillates the patient. Elapsed time 5 1/2 minutes.

A) Your non EMS family members who live four miles from the nearest rescue / fire station are eating dinner when one becomes unresponsive and pulseless. 911 is called and they wait for help. Volunteer squad members rush to their building to retrieve a vehicle with defibrillator then rush to the scene. Elapsed time likely to be 8 to 15 minutes in the best of circumstances.

It would be asking a great deal from a volunteer to consistently donate 12 consecutive hours during the week when they have already worked 40 or more hours on their job. This is especially hard on those with small children or elderly parents needing assistance. Furthermore it would be virtually impossible to staff the agency on weekday days as this is when most volunteer folks work on their jobs.

This is EXACTLY what my department does, although we're paid by the call so I personally tend not to refer to us as volunteers.

A) Your non EMS family members who live four miles from the nearest rescue / fire station are eating dinner when one becomes unresponsive and pulseless. 911 is called and they wait for help. Volunteer squad members rush to their building to retrieve a vehicle with defibrillator then rush to the scene. Elapsed time likely to be 8 to 15 minutes in the best of circumstances.

If you asked our residents if they'd be willing to take a tax increase to prevent this from happening, the answer would be, "Come on, how often does that REALLY happen? You guys are just looking to get paid to sit around all day."

Basically, the mentality is- everybody generates trash, that has to get picked up. Gotta pay the DPW guys. Crime, sure, crime can happen, so we need paid cops.

Fires and medical emergencies- pssh, those happen to somebody else. I'm not paying for it.

[BushyFromOz]

..........you might just take a peek outside of that sheltered, insulated box into which you've stuffed that brain of yours......

Oh, that is priceless!

[captainstandup]

I forgot to mention the paid / volunteer combo departments. This is often a bridge to going paid for many agencies and perhaps an improvement over all volunteer. As I stated in my earlier post I really feel this is an issue of 1) Response times 2) Consistency of care combined with skill level and training. All things being equal, and I submit they rarely are, there should be no difference regarding the sole issue of pay vs. volunteer.

Furthermore, if you were trapped in a burning house would you rather wait for the volunteer folks to go to the station to pick up the fire truck or would you prefer they simply get into the engine and immediately respond to help you?

Finally, as to the issue of tax increase, you would be surprised as to what a community is willing to fund if you do the groundwork. Your community isn't going to miraculously up and say here is a check. It requires time, commitment and a willingness to get into the slimy business of politics to one extent or another, but I assure you high quality public service is expected by your community regardless of their place on a map.