Does Your Service Report Medical Errors To THE PATIENT ?

[flamingemt2011]

I have not suggested that patients be told right away, or that the be told about EVERY error, again, I posted this as you have made a SERIOUS Medical error that could harm/kill the patient.  I am fine with a long drawn out process where everybody in your organization frets over the problem, and launches new initiatives to make sure it never happens again, as LONG AS THE PATIENT IS NOTIFIED AT SOME POINT.  But we are going around in circles, so here is a simple way to clear it up:

All of you have a Director/Chief.  I bet you that that person knows how many errors have occured and how many have been reported to the patient/family this year, or they can ballpark it.  So go ask them for the numbers, and the numbers only, you do not need to know the details of each error (although I bet you know every error that has occured already as the gossip line in EMS is fast and furious).  Then come back here and report the number, you do not have to provide the agency name or anything about the incident, just numbers.  

Of course, no one is going to do that, because you know the answer is going to be similar to mine below:

My service has recorded 13 errors this year, 3 of which were classified as critical, no report to the family or patient, only to the CQI Committee, Medical Director, and Attorney.  My Director stated in his 26 year career, he has only reported one error to the family, because during the initial complaint, they disclosed that their home security system recorded the medics the whole time they were there, and there was no way to deny it.  Otherwise, errors are only admitted if we are sued, and the facts have to be disclosed.

Edited October 26, 2011 by flamingemt2011

[Just Plain Ruff]

Of course, no one is going to do that, because you know the answer is going to be similar to mine below:

Again, there you go with the blanket statements.

I will go ask the director today. I will also pose the question to the nurse managers at the client I'm at.

I'll let you know what the numbers are if they give me them.

Flaming, are you willing to put your livelihood and career in jeopardy by telling the patient you made a mistake? Answer that question honestly.

[flamingemt2011]

Yes ruff, if i caused a patients death or serious injury, I think they have the right to know, if it costs me my job that is the cost of the error. If I were working at a place that built dump trucks, and I had an error so horrible that it had major ramifications on my employer, I would expect to be fired. I do not see how anyone can claim to be a patient advocate, except when it might cost me my job. Thank you for checking into that, I hope more will do the same. I would not report a minor error that caused no harm. Have I always felt this way, NO. But that is part of the growth process, you make alot of mistakes when young, and you learn from them, and hopefully your views change as you learn.

There is not a person in this room that would not be upset if a nurse killed their family member, swept it under the rug, and then found out the truth sometime later. I would not feed you anything I would not eat, I will not ask you to do a job that I will not do. I think my patients deserve the same care that I would expect for me or my family. Yes a mistake can hurt you in this career, but we all knew that when we joined up. None of us are perfect, but that is why we should do everything to minimize mistakes (as you have stated your service does), but killing a patient is still killing a patient.

[DFIB]

flameingEMT- Do you really think you could hide tratment information if a medics action killed a patient? In the USA? With all the supervision and oversight? I don't think so.

[flamingemt2011]

Quite easy, here is a real life example. Called to 43 year old male complaining of right wrist/arm pain only, thinks he strained it lifting weights (has cardiac history of a cath 2 years ago that showed some blockage and HBP). Medic spends all of 7 minutes on the scene, takes B/P (was normal) and has patient test his range of motion of arm/wrist/fingers/shoulder, tells him to go see his doctor or go to the ER, gets a refusal, leaves the patient at home (never put him on monitor or did any other assessment).

Patient walks into ER 2.5 hours later, and drops dead in triage from an MI. Medics documented that they offered to transport (EMT confidentially tells coworker they did not, medic was a little pissed that he got called out for arm pain). Guy called wife at work and told him the ambulance crew said he should go get it checked out, and let her know that he was on the way to ER. If he had not told her that, no one would have ever knew that EMS got a refusal on him (he was home alone).

[DFIB]

Quite easy, here is a real life example. Called to 43 year old male complaining of right wrist/arm pain only, thinks he strained it lifting weights (has cardiac history of a cath 2 years ago that showed some blockage and HBP). Medic spends all of 7 minutes on the scene, takes B/P (was normal) and has patient test his range of motion of arm/wrist/fingers/shoulder, tells him to go see his doctor or go to the ER, gets a refusal, leaves the patient at home (never put him on monitor or did any other assessment).

Patient walks into ER 2.5 hours later, and drops dead in triage from an MI. Medics documented that they offered to transport (EMT confidentially tells coworker they did not, medic was a little pissed that he got called out for arm pain). Guy called wife at work and told him the ambulance crew said he should go get it checked out, and let her know that he was on the way to ER. If he had not told her that, no one would have ever knew that EMS got a refusal on him (he was home alone).

I can see how these guys were masterful at covering up the situation. They were so good that you are talking about it on the internet. Did they tell anyone beside you?

[Just Plain Ruff]

Yes ruff, if i caused a patients death or serious injury, I think they have the right to know, if it costs me my job that is the cost of the error. If I were working at a place that built dump trucks, and I had an error so horrible that it had major ramifications on my employer, I would expect to be fired. I do not see how anyone can claim to be a patient advocate, except when it might cost me my job. Thank you for checking into that, I hope more will do the same. I would not report a minor error that caused no harm. Have I always felt this way, NO. But that is part of the growth process, you make alot of mistakes when young, and you learn from them, and hopefully your views change as you learn.

There is not a person in this room that would not be upset if a nurse killed their family member, swept it under the rug, and then found out the truth sometime later. I would not feed you anything I would not eat, I will not ask you to do a job that I will not do. I think my patients deserve the same care that I would expect for me or my family. Yes a mistake can hurt you in this career, but we all knew that when we joined up. None of us are perfect, but that is why we should do everything to minimize mistakes (as you have stated your service does), but killing a patient is still killing a patient.

I as well would want the patient to know if the error I did cost them thier life or caused significant damage.

But I want to be shielded from some financial costs thus the reporting to the correct channels.

If the error costs me my job, then so be it but I'm not so quick to report the error to the patient.

[flamingemt2011]

Like I said earler, the EMS gossip line is faster than 4G internet, everyone in the department knew about it within a week's time.  But they only knew that they got a refusal and the patient later died. The hospital contacted our chief, there was an investigation, but I do not know the specifics of what happened to them (I know they were not fired), and I do not know if they ever told the family, or just showed them the refusal paperwork.

Edited October 27, 2011 by flamingemt2011

[hatelilpeepees]

I have remained silent on this one, because I took such a beat down on the obese patient thread, but I can not stay silent any longer. Flaming, I have to agree with you, and I am glad you started this topic. It is shameful that our industry puts lawyers before patient rights. If you injure or kill a patient, it should be disclosed. I agree with Ruff that it should only be done after an investigation through all of the proper channels, but to go through that investigation and find that you were negligent, and then not report it to the family or patient is at best shady.

It simply does not pass the smell test. I was always told, if you wouldn't want your mom watching you do something or finding out that you did something, you should not do it. I could not look my family in the eye and say, "Yes I killed the patient, but we successfully covered it up so I could keep my license". That is just "WRONG" on every level, if you are a professional.

[akflightmedic]

So out of the 1000s of people I have helped in my career is negligible when I make one error? My entire career should be taken from me (license removal) and my family should now suffer the effects of sudden loss of income? And they continue to suffer while I seek a new career, back to school or a lesser paying career (flipping burgers).

One little mistake and it all should be stripped from me and I should then be shifted to the welfare line and become another burden on the taxpayers?

Where is the fairness in that? Sure you can say my mistake harmed the person or even killed them...but when looking at my years in the business and all the good done, you wish to end it all over one error?