EMTs and EMT-Is speak out!

[letmesleep]

Ok folks, we have discussed this NUMEROUS times here in the city, and it is quite obvious that we have a few that feel as if us medics are "Paragods". So I thought I'd start a thread for all of you who feel this way, and place it under the "Knowledge Base" forum to teach us a little about yourself as EMTs and EMT-Is. Obviously we medics have NO real knowledge about your worth in the field, so here is your chance to speak out. Tell us your thoughts on the subject.

Admin, If this is wrong in any way shape or form feel free without any issues from me (the OP) to edit this as you see fit, please! I do realize this has been talked about before, but I'm not real sure we have ever tried to take this approach. Is this stirring the pot? It very well may, but can it not be calm and informative to all of us to hear (uninterrupted) how these levels feel, so we can maybe improve things a little?

To all of my fellow "paragods" out there such as AK, Dust, Ruff, myself and lets throw in the RNs and RRTs as well Rid, Vent. Well you know who you are, the regulars. Lets stay out of this for a bit and see where it takes us, your choice of course because it isn't up to me to control any of you. Also no offense to those I may have left off my list.

Why do you as EMTs and EMT-Is get upset (pissed) when the medics here "bash" (even tho I see it as pushing you to continue your education) you? Why is it that when we say we don't need you in our truck you get angry? Why have you decided to stay at the level your at? Most importantly, Why do we still believe that EMTs save medics?

What are your thoughts?

[reaper]

I say, NO medics reply until there are at least 20 posts. I would be interested in the EMT's point of views!

[itku2er]

For me its simple I am at the intermediate level because I do not have the time nor the money to go to paramedic school. Any of you want to pay for it i will be more than happy to go. But being a single mom I have to do what I can when I can no I am not looking for sympathy just stating a fact. That is why I went to nursing school it pays more to be a nurse than it does to be a medic. I am all for education but with the economy the way it some battles just have to be picked before you can win the war. I think that alot of the attitudes some people as medics have is what people dont like. There is a right way and wrong way to get your point across, coming across as an arragant know it all ass isnt the correct way to do it. Yes I am being honest here and straight forward that is the only way I know how to be. There are some basics and intermediates both here on this site that are smart and knowledgable of ems. As far as emt's saving medics I never really understood that but some say its true who am I to argue that point. It takes us all to make things work but we do need to work together and educate each other without the I am a medic so that makes me smarter than you attitude some people have.

That is just my two cents worth take it as you want to, bash it if you want I dont care. I know what I can do and I am confortable with what Level I am and who is any of you to judge me because I am not a medic. Last time I looked none of you guys are paying my bills.

[spenac]

As an EMT-I and previously an EMT-B and even an ECA (FR) I have to agree that in a perfect world there would always be 2 highly educated paramedics (not diploma mill medics ) on every ambulance. I do agree this would ensure the best care possible. While I am very experienced and yes I worked in a very aggressive system where I did more than many Paramedics I realize that if I had been a Paramedic with more education and understanding there would have been better outcomes for my patients.

Why did I stay at lower levels so long? First I never expected EMS to become my profession. Then as I realized I really enjoyed it I still had the problem of no classes for Paramedic closer than 250 miles from home. As a family man, and family always has and always will come first, I could not quit working and leave to go to school. Thankfully I found a program that my family and me agreed would allow me to advance to Paramedic level. As I have progressed and even now nearing completion of it I realize though that much of my "experience" actually has made my education harder to attain. I have also seen just how little I actually knew, and actually now am scared of many of the procedures I have been doing for years because I more fully understand what is involved.

I do highly encourage all to go on to paramedic as soon as possible and in a perfect world I hope to see the lower levels done away with completely or at least limited to the time required to get a high quality Paramedic education. Am I arrogant, cocky, etc? Yes to an extent. I feel you need some of those qualitys to be the best. But I think it still should be balanced, it should not come across as stepping on the feelings of others. Here on the forums though it does get frustrating trying to reason with people and at times most lower and upper level posters have just gone point blank with their answer rather than just trying to continue to reason.

I do apologize if you mistake my zeal for more education in EMS as bashing. I just want what is best for the patients and common sense would indicate that more education would produce better care. As a human I have made many mistakes and yes I have had lower and advanced levels bring up points that have led to better patient outcomes and I have done the same so I guess technically I could say I have saved basics, intermediates, paramedics, nurses, and doctors before. But there is no getting around the fact that a higher educated person is more likely to help you avoid making a mistake than a person with less education.

So theres my thoughts as a lower level provider.

[Timmy]

Well I'm not a registered American EMT so do I still count lol?

It annoys me that they know so much! Well it dosnt so much annoy me but makes me jealous, I can only aspire to have equivalent knowledge sometime in the future. Sometimes the way in which paramedics on here deliver information in an arrigont manner like they expect you to know... I haven't posted in a scenario thread for a while in fear of getting bashed like I have a few times. I'm 18, I've been in part time education as a student paramedic for 5 months, had a month off and now I'm working full time as a student nurse with part time class, been doing this for 2 months, so I'm sorry for not knowing it all and trying to have a go.

I too found it extremely hard to fund my way though school, I almost dropped the paramedic course to work full time in a non related job but was fortunate enough to have an opportunity like my hospital based (paid) traineeship pop up. I found it hard to adapt to the city life while in medic school, it was in Melbourne which is 3 hours away from my little, sheltered life in a small rural town. This nursing traineeship is excellent! I'm working in my home town, living with the folks for free and I'm around friends, family and everything I'm used to, I still get to ride my dirtbike, muck around on the farm, try and roll the paddock basher ect with my mates. Even though this traineeship is only a nursing Diploma its a great bridging course into the nursing degree, it will only take 1.5 years after this course to get my degree and in the end only adds one year if I had of went straight into the nursing degree and if i'm lucky it will all be paid for! I fully intend on moving to Melbourne or a bigger hospital after I get my degree because I would love to work in a busy Emergency Department and maybe complete a post grad.

I hate how people (on here and in real life) degrade people who take a different path to achieving their goals, I fully intend on become a degree Paramedic/ED RN but I'm doing it a different way, a way that suits me, it may take a little longer but I don't care. I also volunteer doing event first aid/first responder, have so since I was 11. We have ambulances, can give certain drugs, carry collars, defibs, resus gear, splints, trauma kits, enough to keep someone alive/comfortable until the paramedics arrive to transport to hospital. I do, at times wish we had a greater scope but accept that we are a BLS service. Over the years I have formed some pretty awesome friendships with people in this organisation, I enjoy doing some management stuff, volunteer training and so on. Not many 18 year olds have managed the EMS side of event standby at medium sized events (they haven't let me off the leash yet) or made a training plan. I also work along side some pretty cool volunteer paramedics, nurses and doctors who have a wealth on knowledge and experience yet some people still make derogatory comments towards the organisation and its members. Sure we have some whackers and the management at a state level can be less than desirable at times but on the most part the people I work with are awesome, amazing people with some great stories and life experience.

I was also scared I wasn't ready to become a nurse/medic, maybe I didn't think I was mature enough? I remember sitting in on a paramedic lecture and thinking why the hell do I need to know this? I guess I was scared of failing. I thought I still had some growing up to do and to live life as a young person does, I see my friends who are learning to become builders, traders persons or just find a 9 till 5 job, it's pretty easy going, good money, they have a lot of spare time, don't really have to study, life pretty much revolves around having a good time, girls, beer and having a ball. This to me was so temping but I'm glad I'm doing what I'm doing.

** Bleeding heart over** :wink:

[Chief1C]

I do my thing. They do theirs.. Not everyone fits, because of the amount of ignorance that drips from some.. But most of us fit into a cog on the gear of EMS... Which btw is run by a Ford Model TT engine instead of a computerized machine like it should be.

[Eydawn]

First of all, let me say that I have been an EMT-B for over three years now and was a First Responder for a couple years before that. Initially, when I was first introduced to the forums, I resented the attitude of many higher level providers towards EMT Basics. I didn't really grasp how small the educational scope for EMT really is until I spent some time evaluating it and undergoing a formal college education with which to compare the EMT class.

Now, I understand the frustration with the inadequate education that is given to us as EMT-B's and I fully understand why higher level providers are allowed more skills, greater judgement, and more responsibility. It is not because any individual person, as a paramedic, is better than any other individual person who happens to be an EMT-B or EMT-I.

I blame a lot of this dissent on EMS culture. Most of us became attracted to the field for the chance to be a hero. As someone much wiser than myself indicated, it is a normal and very human attraction to want to be the "person who comes to the assistance of the person in need." Unfortunately, the mentality of "being the hero" can give one an inflated sense of self importance, especially since many of us in the medical field identify at the personal level so closely with our professional endeavors.

Think about how EMT class starts out. You are informed that you will be exposed to things that many people cannot begin to imagine... that you will not only be witness to but actively part of the most important moments of people's lives. That you are there to *MAKE A DIFFERENCE* and help those in need. This attitude is reinforced when you get into the field- everyone talks shop, rehashes "good calls" and so on... and you are an active part of that, with community thanks and supervisor praise to reinforce the job you are performing.

Think about it... now, you're an individual who has performed medical interventions and assisted with high priority calls, you take pride in who you are and what you do... and now someone comes along to tell you that your education sucks and that you, as an EMT Basic are essentially worth little more than a Thumper robot that can spike IV bags and use a BVM. This is not just assaulting someone's education or intelligence... for many people it is an affront to their very IDENTITY.

If you grow into an EMS culture like the one I describe above, how can you be blamed when you react violently or angrily to someone's attack on how you understand EMS?

Here's the problem. The good old boy, heroes at the front line, saving lives EMS culture does not program EMT-Basics to understand why a paramedic is really a higher level of care. As a matter of fact, it reinforces that each individual, regardless of training level, is important to the department. Unfortunately, Basics are also cheaper- lower education levels means lower pay and less overhead for an agency.

Another part of the problem is in how those who have advanced to paramedic choose to interact with lower level providers. What many paramedics and RN's fail to realize is that having a college education forces you to think differently and gives you tools that many individuals who are EMT Basics do not realize truly exist. It's like trying to explain calculus to a 4th grader; you can be the best mathematician in the world, but if you can't bridge the gap to realize that the 4th grader doesn't think the way you do in order to try to get concepts across, you're just going to sound like a pompous ass who likes to sound off their own knowledge and you're probably going to make the kid cry.

You can't approach ignorance and try to bludgeon it into submission. I'm not saying that EMT-Bs are ignorant PEOPLE... however, due to the social treatment and conditioning that they experience they have a level of educational ignorance that must first be bridged in order to provide the proper motivation for pursuing higher education. Why, if someone is managing to make a living wage and enjoying what they do, should they fork over the money for a higher level of education, just because some uppity paramedic says so?

There is also the fact that many EMT-B's have found something that they feel a level of competence in, when the US school system has convinced them that they're really just stupid people who will never make above the C/D level grades wise, so they might as well not even try for higher education. You'd be surprised how many EMTs I've met who think that little of their intellectual ability. They're *scared* to try for the paramedic level, because they don't think they're smart enough. But! They understand the very basics of medicine, and they enjoy it.

I have to admit, that as a person with a certain modicum of intelligence, I have made the mistake of trying to explain something that seems pretty simple to me (usually biology stuff to my non-science oriented friends) and been greeted with blank stares, laughter, or criticism because what I have been saying is so far over their head that they have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about. They might have a few of the same vocabulary items that I do... but conceptually, things are very different. Unfortunately, that is how many paramedics, satisfied with their level of understanding and knowledge, come across to recalcitrant Basics who really don't *KNOW* how inadequate their education is.

You have to teach someone how to appreciate the subtler rewards that come with further knowledge, and teach them how their situation around them affects their self perception and knowledge, before you can hope to convince them that their level of education is inadequate. You have to be able to reach through all of the social conditioning that goes along with the EMS system we work in and teach someone that they are capable of pursuing higher knowledge even though they themselves think they are the stupidest M*f**** on the face of the planet-- even if they are too ashamed to outright admit it.

That's the real disjunct. And then you have the fact that certain individuals, regardless of educational level, revel in the anonymity that the forum provides and let out their frustration and anger through vitriol-- regardless of who that filth hits or hurts. You don't have to be explicit to damage someone through a personal attack on the internet.

I think if this gets any longer, no one will read it. But that's my take on the situation. I am in a unique position; I am currently undergoing formal college education and have long term medical education goals... and I am an EMT-B. Do I think the paramedics go overboard with the arrogance? Sure. But so do the Basics. And I will say this in closing... if you feel that you have to be arrogant or cocky in order to perform excellent medicine, you're compensating for some weakness you feel. Some of the best medical providers I've seen, at all levels, were very gentle personalities who led by respect and action, rather than "I'm the best" attitude.

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[JakeEMTP]

It wasn't to long Wendy. I read it. However, to go along with Reapers' suggestion, I won't comment in this thread until the 20 post requirement is met.

Well, except for this one.

[Don1977]

I have been an EMT for 7 years and I am happy at that level, I also do not have time or money to go to medic school at this time and I have no interest in becoming a medic at this time.

And as for the paragod comment, its not every medic that is like that.... There are EMT's like that also

[reaper]

Come on guys, I figured this thread would be 20 pages by now. Lets here your point of views!