Paragod: Fact or Fiction?

[vs-eh?]

Long story short, we get to the ER and this medic as part of his report says to the doc/nurses, "yeah we gave him 4 purple boxes, a yellow, and a green! He stayed in a pulseless type rhythm, and never came back.

You're joking right? I hope you are.

So he gave 4mg of atropine, 50mEq of bicarb and 25g of dextrose? Hmmmm leads me to believe either you aren't reciting the report accurately or the colours of the boxes are different here.

Either way. This just reinforces the impression of colour coded medics that other countries have of the US (yes, I'm generalizing).

ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. This "medic" would be laughed out of the ER if she/he gave a report like that here.

I am flabbergasted.

[Dustdevil]

Ace, this Para-God complex is just that, a complex if it exists. It isn't limited to just Paramedics and it isn't just limited to EMS. You can have a Copa-God, Nursea-God, Doctor (they are god), Lawyera-God, Plumbera-God, etc. Anytime someone thinks they are the epitome of what they do.

Funny thing is, most of the time you see a total wanker with EMS stickers all over his car, a cheap stethoscope hanging from the rearview mirror, and a red light on his dashboard, it's a basic EMT. You just don't see nearly as many medics doing that sort of thing. I think the basic-gods are simply jealous because they don't have somebody under them to shove out of the way.

[Just Plain Ruff]

To Vs-eh, are you saying that none of your medics up there would give a report like the one cited, if no one would then kudos for your system but I know that there are some that might.

Why are we doing the Canada versus the US EMS systems are better than each other.

I did a lot of work in London Ontario in the ER's doing computer consulting and I heard some medics up there give crappy radio reports and crappy ER reports.

I've heard crappy radio reports and hospital reports in the US.

I have been on scene in london ontario as the first one to witness an injury and was treated terribly by the responding crew and was basically told to leave the scene they are there now.

I've been treated the same way in the us.

So why are all the posts a US is better than canada or vice versa from some?

[vs-eh?]

To Vs-eh, are you saying that none of your medics up there would give a report like the one cited, if no one would then kudos for your system but I know that there are some that might.

Again, you're joking right? Come on, you guys aren't reading this saying to yourself "Well self, that seems like a reasonable report to me...What is the problem..." Gimme a break...2 BROWN 2 PURPLE, SOME WEIRDO RHYTHM WITHOUT A PULSE....

25 year old male receiving O2 via plastic mask, he has those cardiac stickies on his chest, the rhythm looks normal as I remember from class, I couldn't start one of those IV things, the thing that tell you the blood sugar said low, he got a white box with a needle and some powder, I mixed it and injected it into his arm, GLUE-KA-GONERS or something, I took a prick from his finger again, it said 6.4, I dunno what that means but we are hear now at the hospital. he is saying stuff now,PHEWWWWWWW!!!!! :roll:

Ummmm no dude, I guarantee you no paramedic here would given a report like that. And I doubt your experience in London was typical of the service, in fact I can say with confidence that it isn't. Telling you the colours of the boxes they gave, following a ROSC and report to the hospital? LOL. Come on.

They also got a bag with silver foil around it DOPA-something, there pressure was 60 something so I gave it. I hope I did my drug calcs right. 120drips per minute with a 10gtt set right? :wink:

[Dustdevil]

Granted there are crummy medics giving crummy reports all over the globe. And although I would expect to find a few in Ontario, just like anyplace else, I would not expect to find any of them talking box colours instead of drug names. I think that is pretty much a US phenomenon, since we are one of the only places with such disgustingly low entry standards. And the box colour thing started out in urban agencies where simplification was paramount. Consequently, you have a bunch of wannabe's who want to sound like the big boys in the big city using the box colour terminology just like wankers outside of NYC use the term "bus."

Anyhow, I don't see where the thread has become an us vs. them thing. But I do see where some are still trying to take it off topic.

STOP IT!

[vs-eh?]

Oh and I admit, reports are rarely detailed. They don't need to be.

"78 y/o male, post-arrest, VF shocked twice, 2 rounds of epi/atropine with a ROSC, 500ml fluid on board, pressure of 60 with a rate of 110, setting up dopamine, be there in 5."

"68 y/o female, CAOx3 c/o CP consistent with ischemia, pt has hx of heart, 12 lead shows ST elevation in V2-4, IV established, ASA, NTG, morphine on board with some relief, eta 7 minutes."

These are standard reports en-route.

Keep in mind, we don't give a report to the ER for every patient we bring in, on the one's we feel that are warranted.

[kevkei]

Funny thing is, most of the time you see a total wanker with EMS stickers all over his car, a cheap stethoscope hanging from the rearview mirror, and a red light on his dashboard, it's a basic EMT. You just don't see nearly as many medics doing that sort of thing. I think the basic-gods are simply jealous because they don't have somebody under them to shove out of the way.

Ain't that the truth! Don't get me started on that.

[Asysin2leads]

>"yeah we gave him 4 purple boxes, a yellow, and a green! He stayed in a pulseless type rhythmn, and never came back. >Unknown down time, and he's a diabetic, we were at his house ealier but he was fine and we got a refusal!!!"

This story, and the fact you expect us to believe it, really shows that exactly what paramedics have to go through to become certified is still very much a mystery to most lower level providers. You do not have pharmacology, pathophysiology, and anatomy and physiology pounded into your head and still think of the medications by color codes. If this story is indeed true, the medic was being as asshole and flippant. This reminds me of the EMT-lieutenant who told me medics couldn't diagnose a "heart attack" without our machines. She must have meant the heart attack detector we carry.

In regards to what Dust said, yes, in a busy system the amount of patients needing care sometimes makes for the need to give condensed patient care reports. Somewhere along the lines people who really want to work in busy systems thought the way condensed reports were given sounded "cool." These people are stupid. I've seen BLS providers flip out when they don't think medics are giving a report "properly". A proper verbal report is when you get the most critical information to the doctor and nurses in the shortest time possible. For example: Doctor: What's going on? Medic: Tight Asthmatic, used her pump three times today without relief, prior history of intubation in 1994, wheezing in all fields, EKG is normal but fast, gave her 3 treatments, point three of epi, started a line, also gave her 2 grams of mag and 12 of dex, she's opened up some but her sat still sucks.

This is not the proper medical terminology, but the medic is not saying it to sound "cool", he is saying it to get the critical information out their quickly.

[Ace844]

>"yeah we gave him 4 purple boxes, a yellow, and a green! He stayed in a pulseless type rhythmn, and never came back. >Unknown down time, and he's a diabetic, we were at his house ealier but he was fine and we got a refusal!!!"

This story, and the fact you expect us to believe it, really shows that exactly what paramedics have to go through to become certified is still very much a mystery to most lower level providers. You do not have pharmacology, pathophysiology, and anatomy and physiology pounded into your head and still think of the medications by color codes. If this story is indeed true, the medic was being as &*%hole and flippant. This reminds me of the EMT-lieutenant who told me medics couldn't diagnose a "heart attack" without our machines. She must have meant the heart attack detector we carry.

In regards to what Dust said, yes, in a busy system the amount of patients needing care sometimes makes for the need to give condensed patient care reports. Somewhere along the lines people who really want to work in busy systems thought the way condensed reports were given sounded "cool." These people are stupid. I've seen BLS providers flip out when they don't think medics are giving a report "properly". A proper verbal report is when you get the most critical information to the doctor and nurses in the shortest time possible. For example: Doctor: What's going on? Medic: Tight Asthmatic, used her pump three times today without relief, prior history of intubation in 1994, wheezing in all fields, EKG is normal but fast, gave her 3 treatments, point three of epi, started a line, also gave her 2 grams of mag and 12 of dex, she's opened up some but her sat still sucks.

This is not the proper medical terminology, but the medic is not saying it to sound "cool", he is saying it to get the critical information out their quickly.

My post was infact true, and it did happen ( This incident occured about 4 yrs ago. Funny the medics seemed to get smarter for awhile, now it seems lately that more and more we're back to what I will now call "the box color mentality") , this was essentially the report given to the ER staff. This medic no longer works, nor has a cert to practice, it was revoked by the state in which it occured. To limit the possibility of "slander" I will post no further details. I used this story to illustrate the fact that there is a decently large sample of medics who are grossly under/un educated and are clueless about medicine, yet think they are in fact "knowledgeable", a significant number of these also seem to suffer "the paragod complex" we are discussing here.

As someone who went to an extremely progressive medic school, and has spend several thousands of hours in the hospital up to this point, I think this takes abit of a chunk out of your statement of;

"This story, and the fact you expect us to believe it, really shows that exactly what paramedics have to go through to become certified is still very much a mystery to most lower level providers. You do not have pharmacology, pathophysiology, and anatomy and physiology pounded into your head and still think of the medications by color codes. "

In my program we were taught way beyond what most programs teach in your aforementioned post. As a matter of fact, I know a few schools around these parts who do "teach" using the method I mentioned as well as memorizing the protocols so they can "pass a test" Most medic classes here, teach verylittle about the subjects you mentioned. I know what the colors mean and I never use that terminology in my practice, although I do know a significant # of medics that do. So I guess I am abit more than an under educated BLS provider who has no clue about paramedic education... I also take serious offense to you questioning my integrity, and honesty when you neither know me, or anything about me. Also, I never made a personal attack against you! I think up to this point as an individual on this board...since it's inception, my posts speak for themselves. Feel free to apologize anytime!

You also can "see" what my paramedic class/program is like here. MHRI Program of Paramedicine As you will see we greatly exceed the national standards and are taught to the highest levels, perhaps even beyond those to which you may have been taught yourself!!

out here,

Ace844

[Guest]

Funny thing is, most of the time you see a total wanker with EMS stickers all over his car, a cheap stethoscope hanging from the rearview mirror, and a red light on his dashboard, it's a basic EMT. You just don't see nearly as many medics doing that sort of thing. I think the basic-gods are simply jealous because they don't have somebody under them to shove out of the way.

Last time I checked it was the "PARAMEDICS" that were rewriting their scope of practice to be considered "PROFESSIONAL", most basics I have met whether paid or volunteer do it for the patient. Case in point, I was once told by a "PARAMEDIC" that I should become one to get hired by the local FD (that screams patient care profe$$ionalism)

Not all Paramedics are "PARA-GODS" and not all Basics are patient driven (I have seen both drooling like puppies when the siren is turned on), but there are A LOT of paramedics who look down on basics, because they didn't go to school as long. No matter how long your schooling, some people are natural with people and others are just born A$$holes