DwayneEMTP Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 There Are No Better Options when a patient won't fit out of the door! And no, we've all heard the rumors and urban legends about patients growing into their couches and needing to be extricated with it, but I'm willing to bet that not a single person has seen it....Another question mark here in my opinion... I give up girl. Truly, if you can't see the difference between acceptable risk when there are limited or no options when compared to those times when there are, then I just have to bail on this conversation. This is 6th grade EMTB stuff...I'm confident that you could get it if you wanted. And whether or not your user name was meant to state your dick preference, again, I'm confident that you knew exactly how it would be perceived when you chose it. Thanks for the conversation. And I mean that sincerely. You remain unchanged, as do I....I'll catch you on the next debate. Dwayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFIB Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 And no, we've all heard the rumors and urban legends about patients growing into their couches and needing to be extricated with it, but I'm willing to bet that not a single person has seen it....Another question mark here in my opinion... Dwayne My son, also an EMT, found an old. moldy. half eaten. haburger patty between a fold of skin on one of his patients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatelilpeepees Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Happy to oblige you dwayne: http://defrance.org/artman/publish/article_967.shtml http://allnurses.com/general-nursing-discussion/sad-story-480-a-75623.html Thats two more examples than anyone has given me of obese patients killed in MVCs because they were not on a stretcher. Love You ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medicgirl05 Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 So two questions you still refuse to answer: If you have no proof that a patient has been injured or killed while riding the ambulance floor, how can you say it is a "RISK" at all ? Using that logic, I could demand that all of you can never use a cell phone again because I believe it poses a risk to you. If the "risky behavior" can result in death, why would you ever choose to do it, and what other deadly situations do you allow to occur ? There was a whole thread where you guys argued against putting your life at risk for most calls, why would you not treat your patients the same way ? Question number 1-How can you say it is not a risk? There is always a risk of a traffic accident wether the ambulance driver is at fault or not. Failing to properly secure a patient increases the chance of injury to said patient. Common sense is the source for that knowledge. Question number 2- I am not risking my patient or my safety in order to transfer a perfectly stable patient to a facility that is for long term care. There are situations when you take risks, when there is no alternative, when it is likely that your patient will die if you don't transfer them as in an emergency transfer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFIB Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I think there is an aspect we are missing. The ratio between patients that are transported while properly restrained to a stretcher and those that are transported on the floor, which would be infinitely less. Out of the cases that are transported on the floor, what percentage would suffer an MVC, out of the ones that might suffer an MVC how many are rollovers. Reason demands that the ratio would be very small compared to the ratio of MVCs where the patient is in a stretcher. One thing is sure; except for an absolute miracle every patient transported on the floor should sustain injury from an MVC with a significant MOI. This would not be necessarily true with properly secured patients on a stretcher. Therefore I have to conclude that further discussion of HLPP argument of stretchers coming loose in a rollover would be inevitably flawed and should be abandoned. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asysin2leads Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 (edited) IHLPP seems to be dodging my questions, but I'll try again: IHLPP: Has your company discussed with your State EMS oversight department about transporting patients in the manner you described? I mean, that would end the argument right there. Edited October 17, 2011 by Asysin2leads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happiness Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 IHLPP seems to be dodging my questions, but I'll try again: IHLPP: Has your company discussed with your State EMS oversight department about transporting patients in the manner you described? I mean, that would end the argument right there. None of mine have been answered but I didnt expect them to be, and with the admission that she has lied to us already on her profile, Im not to sure if I personally would even except the answer's as the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatelilpeepees Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I did answer about state law, u can see all state requirements on state ems page. I am sorry haziness. I am one person trying to keep up what arr your questions, as far as my age I guess I hit wrong button on phone during setup, will try to fix it didn't know it was wrong till you pointed it out, no lie intended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paramagic Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 (edited) I probably shouldn't continue to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent, but I just can't help myself today. Paramagic I completely understand risk versus benefit, it is you who does not. Lets try this: there is a loaded gun in your home, do you ever point it at your family, even when you are cleaning it and are 100% sure it is completely unloaded. There is no risk, since there are no bullets and your finger is not pulling the trigger, but you do not take the risk, EVER. I'm not sure what this has to do with the transport of bariatric patients, but your grasp on logic seems to be as strong as you grasp on EMS. Everyone in here is saying that putting a 1000 lb patient on an ambulance floor is extremely dangerous (although no on can produce any proof that a patient has been injured or killed during one of these transports,, and it happens on a frequent basis. Now in the scenario above with the gun, we can point to accidental gun death statistics to prove that pointing a gun at someone is dangerous and risky. So two questions you still refuse to answer: If you have no proof that a patient has been injured or killed while riding the ambulance floor, how can you say it is a "RISK" at all ? Using that logic, I could demand that all of you can never use a cell phone again because I believe it poses a risk to you. The patient's weight is almost irrelevant to the problem, if it weren't for the fact that it is the factor which means they cannot be properly restrained. There are hundreds of papers on the risk of death to unrestrained passengers in motor vehicle collisions. If a person with a healthy weight is at a significantly increased risk (around 75% more likely to die) in a motor vehicle collision, what makes you think that an overweight patient isn't? It's simple common sense (at least I thought it was). If you would like some proof that unrestrained passengers are more likely to get hurt or killed, you could try here or here, it really isn't that difficult. If the "risky behavior" can result in death, why would you ever choose to do it, and what other deadly situations do you allow to occur ? There was a whole thread where you guys argued against putting your life at risk for most calls, why would you not treat your patients the same way ? Oh boy, here we go again. I will type this really slowly, try to keep up. If the patient has a time critical illness or injury that we know has a high probability of resulting in death if left untreated (such as a STEMI, dissecting aorta, whatever) then it is the risk involved with transporting the patient unrestrained may be less than the risk of sitting around waiting for a bariatric unit to arrive. I don't know how to make it any clearer than that. My friends 7 year old understands that concept, I hope you can too. And finally, I have to call BS on this whole possible risk/benefit arguement. I have seen most of you blast people who come in here with a statement that is not backed up with statistical proof or research studies. Show me any SCIENTIFIC PROOF that you have that proves this is a dangerous activity, and again please explain how something that is too dangerous for an IFT service is totally blessed for the Paragods of a 911 service ? I will argue that there is less risk for this patient, because the driver will be more careful than normal, knowing the patient is not strapped in. I see, so there has to be published data that shows something is safe or not? Ok, putting aside the hundreds, if not thousands of publications that show the increased risk to unrestrained passengers in collisions, this one I am happy to go with. You have a son right? Well, what say that I bring him a live rocket launcher for Christmas. You will undoubtedly be happy to let him play with it, as there are no published reports of children being killed in the home in the US with a live rocket launcher. Therefore, according to your "logic" it is perfectly safe. See how that works? Not very well right? Edited October 17, 2011 by Paramagic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERDoc Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 (edited) Nevermind, the image wouldn't take. Edited October 17, 2011 by ERDoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts