tniuqs Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I don't think anyone is saying that we should only have atheists for our political leaders. I think what everyone is saying is that a person's religion really has no bearing on how good of a political leader that they'll be, and that it would be best if we stuck to the politics and left religion out of it. Ok I will bite ... why not ? What is the down side ? In reference to Richards post, I like simple. How can be a hypocrite if one does not believe or profess to believe ? Accept for that paint brush term Infidel bunch The JW ? ... OMG, how can anyone have respect that hits me up at the door of my own home and literally puts a foot in my door jam, then ask to politely leave, walks around the block and document's everything in the discussion. I digress but worth the commentary, my ex wife had the perfect answer to this unsolicited intrusion, because that is what it is and btw I sent girl guides and boy scouts screaming from my door too I am an equalist ! Sir / Madam: I am a bit too busy right now, but if you would like to write down your address, I will be happy to drop by your home at 06:00 hrs and discuss the good word of the lord ... never to be heard from again, crotch please don't speak of a denomination that singularly speaking all members are true to form and religious philosophy. If true political / religious impartially was ever to actually exist then would this be not a "good thing" ? I say YES on the grounds of equality but and its a huge big butt, we as humans have a tendency to be biased i.e. see Carl Jung ... it is in our nature. What bothers my sensitivities is that this Governor and within hours after he professed his personal belief's .. reneged and apologized to "other" faiths/ denominations. I will put my money on 4c6 theory that there are skeletons in this politicians closet, and the media will now be on a "witch hunt" as is THEIR nature. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akflightmedic Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 Religion is all in your life, like it or not, where do you think our laws come from ? Hint, the ten commandments for starters People who make statements like this have never studied the Ten Commandments or American History. Only 3 of the 10 have relevance to American law...theft, perjury and homicide. (Adultery and Sabbath laws still exist in some states but are artifacts of theocracy. The first 4 Commandments have NOTHING to do with ethics or moral behavior. 1. Spoken by Elohim (which is plural for the god El) and states no other gods before me and establishes himself as "Lord" of the Israelites....not the USA. Last I checked, in the USA we are free to worship one god, many gods or no god; nor does Elohim appear in any of the founding documents. 2. Dont make a graven image...ironically the graven image of the 10 commandments is displayed in many locations. Anyways, this commandment violates free speech, pure and simple. And how do Catholics deal with this...???? Their houses are chock full of images/gods, saints, virgins, etc. Oh wait, never mind...I forgot the Catholic Church actually tried removing the 2nd commandment by removing this one and cutting the last one into two so there would still be 10 total!! 3. Dont take his name in vain. So we are preventing criticism of an elected official? This is undemocratic and contrary to free speech. 4. Remember the sabbath. Well if we follow biblical law, about 15 million Americans deserve capital punishment. So these 4 all seem to be religious edicts, NOT moral guidelines. Absolutely nothing to do with how we treat each other or ethics. So do these 4 have an official place in a country that "shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"? So far, we are 0 out of 4 in proving/disproving our laws came from 10 rules on a stone. 5. Honor mom and pops "that thy days may be long". Now what is confusing here is this is the first rule where we are approaching morality...but it gives no instruction on how to honor them. Do we obey everything? For how long? Until they die? Basically they are just saying respect your folks, which is cool but it is simply a variation of the respect authority message all throughout the bible. I just hate there are no caveats for parents who belong to whacky religions, parents who beat you, parents who takes advantage of you, molest you etc....apparently I still need to respect them. And the whol that thy days be long bit...more about self interest than human value. 6. No killing yo! Finally, it took us to #6 before we got to the first truly genuine moral statement. But crap, it tells us nothing about capital punishment, self defense, war or euthanasia for the terminally ill! God was pretty bloodthirsty himself, but this is more of a do as I say thing not a do as I do. Historically, there were bans on murder long BEFORE Moses got the rule book, before the Israelites existed and it is quite asinine to think the human race could not figure out killing was bad until it was written on a stone. 7. No adultery. While a good idea...it is NOT against the law!! See that, no law against adultery. But if it were a law...does it really warrant the death penalty??? (the scorned may think so but that does not dictate law). But I am pretty sure Leviticus 20:10 states both parties get put to death. Anyways, adultery is a broken promise between two adults (or more) and has absolutely NOTHING to do with a government. I did notice the 10 rules avoid rape, incest...something more useful would have been "dont beat your wife, or dont have sex with a spouse if you knowingly have an STD)...you know, stuff more relevant to today which an all knowing certainly would have had the foresight of. Also, back in this day, women were property of men...so adultery is more theft anyways. But seriously, sleeping with someone else is part of the Big 10??? Our hang ups on sex just go back way too far and too deep. 8. No stealing cause its MINE! This is good advice and is a good law. If it aint yours dont take it, except in wartime. But wait, is this absolute? What if I am poor and I steal some bread to feed my kids? Are there no exceptions? Anyways, another law that makes sense, however it did not take the tablets to inform us of this. Laws existed prior to this great revelation and again to imply we would not know otherwise until it appeared is asinine. 9. No bear false witness. It is a good principle...simply put "Dont tell lies" but there is NO universal law in America prohibiting the telling of tales. Perjury and false advertising sure...but there are times we lie to protect people. During wartime it is virtuous to lie. So chick named Rahab in Hebrews protected some Israeli spies by lying and was rewarded. True morality is weighing and comparing the merits of the consequences of one action against another. Little flexibility.... The bible never allows for ethical dilemmas, just too absolute. History (pre biblical history) has shown repeatedly that stealing, lying and the value of honesty was a big deal...with or without the Big 10. 10. Do not covet neighbor's house, wife, ox, ass...etc. If there were any law based on this rule, the entire free market would collapse. (Notice the wife is property again). Anyways, command me to not covet??? WTF over? If STEALING is wrong, there is no need to have a law about coveting...because no matter how much I covet, I wont steal. But apparently, it is now immoral for me to say, "Hey Crotchity, you got a ncie house, sure would like it for myself". So to summarize, we have 10 rules: 4 are religious edicts 3 are one dimensional prohibitions which are irrelevant to modern law 3 are shallow absolutes which are useful but not unique to the Judeo-Chrsitian system. But wait!!! Are these the REAL 10 commandments??? Come on you religious scholars....this is what you believe in right? This is what our country is founded on right? This is what all of our laws are based on right? Do not shrug your shoulders and say someone else can figure it out or someone else already has. You should take responsibility and know for yourself what it is you profess to believe or know. That is being honest to oneself. Time for bible history lesson readers, if you are still with me thus far.... The above 10 rules came from Exodus and they were never called the 10 commandments. Moses went up the mountain, came down empty handed and said he was told these things (1-10) listed above. Moses went up a second time and returned with the tablets which he smashed (even though it was an original handwritten note from god)...such disrespect. Moses went up a 3rd time for a replacement and which god told him would be identical to previous list. This 3rd trip brought down the stones and this is the ONLY set referred to as 10 Commandments formally. So it is the stones from this last trip which are formally referred to as the 10 Commandments...pay attention folks. 1. No worshiping others (same as first 10 rules) 2. No molten images (same same except maybe graven is ok now?) 3. Feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep (What?) 4. Six days work, rest on seventh (another match) 5. Observe feast of weeks (What? When is this?) 6. Thrice in the year shall all your menchildren appear before the Lord God. (Boys only? how do they get up there every 4 months??) 7. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven. (Huh? What?) 8. Neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left until the morning (Meat spoilage right?) 9. The first of the firstfruits of thy land shalt bring unto the house of the Lord thy God. (Whew...this only applies to farmers so we are off the hook!!) 10. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk. There ya go folks! Those are the 10 Commandments per your book! There is a 20% match with Exodus. Evidently the rules changed between visits, god forgot what he said to start with, homicide, theft perjury, adultery...it is all ok now! Enjoy! No where does it state these are add ons.... So please Crochity and anyone else....please do your own independent research and get back to me with an educated/informed reply and tell me how in the world are our laws based on those 10 Commandments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crotchitymedic1986 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Nice try AK, but note that I said the 10 commandments as a "starter". It is past my bedtime so I will have to dig some tomorrow, but here are a few links to give you something to read tonight: http://www.faithfacts.org/christ-and-the-culture/the-bible-and-government http://www.firstchurchoftheinternet.org/studies/db400yrs.htm P.S. Whats up with your preoccupation with douche bags this month ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Plain Ruff Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 AK, please cite your source for your information you referenced. I would like to look that source up. Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akflightmedic Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 AK, please cite your source for your information you referenced. I would like to look that source up. Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk The Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Plain Ruff Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Which version. Some are considered more valid than others. Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akflightmedic Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 Which version. Some are considered more valid than others. Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk I was waiting on this... Love it. Do not like what you read or interpret...make a version you agree with. Been happening since the first scribes started translating and "improving" over the years; which has led to more confusion than ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chbare Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 To be fair, we do this all the time. You think that stuff you learned about orbitals from your high school chemistry class was not an over-simplified translation? So, when it comes to books about religion and so on, I'm certainly not going to make a big deal about the First National Church of Elvis writing their interpretation of the bible. Does it really matter anyway? What the governor did was wrong, nothing much else to say here. I would feel the same if he had been an atheist and remarked that only atheists could be his brothers and sisters. Take care, chbare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Plain Ruff Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 You criticise my request for you to cite which version of the bible you got all of your last long post yet are you refusing to divulge what version of the bible that stuff came from. I find your criicising me hypocritical. I simply asked what version you got your info from since truly it does conflict with some of what I know. There are over 40 and probably more versions so its a simple request to know the version that you took that from. All I am asking for is where you got the info that you posted so I can do my own research and either come to an agreement with what you wrote or disagree with you. Is that too much to ask? You would be demanding the same from anyone else. Or are you going to stick with the response "the bible" and if you do that then our discussion is over. Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akflightmedic Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 You criticise my request for you to cite which version of the bible you got all of your last long post yet are you refusing to divulge what version of the bible that stuff came from. I find your criicising me hypocritical. I simply asked what version you got your info from since truly it does conflict with some of what I know. There are over 40 and probably more versions so its a simple request to know the version that you took that from. All I am asking for is where you got the info that you posted so I can do my own research and either come to an agreement with what you wrote or disagree with you. Is that too much to ask? You would be demanding the same from anyone else. Or are you going to stick with the response "the bible" and if you do that then our discussion is over. Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk Actually Ruff, I consulted several different versions. Why don't you start with the one you have in your house, check the things I listed and then go from there. That will keep a discussion going...or I can plaster some links like Crotchity and leave it at that. And Crotchity, when you said you listed the Big 10 "for starters" and then I countered it and you respond with well there are others....typically when defending a position in a debate/discussion, you lead with your irrefutable heavy hitters...if you had other sources which were more valid/relevant, that is what you should have lead with. I am attending a conference for the next 4 days in Dubai and will not be around as much as usual. Do not take my silence as a sign other than simply not being available. Actually Ruff, I consulted several different versions. Why don't you start with the one you have in your house, check the things I listed and then go from there. That will keep a discussion going...or I can plaster some links like Crotchity and leave it at that. And Crotchity, when you said you listed the Big 10 "for starters" and then I countered it and you respond with well there are others....typically when defending a position in a debate/discussion, you lead with your irrefutable heavy hitters...if you had other sources which were more valid/relevant, that is what you should have lead with. I am attending a conference for the next 4 days in Dubai and will not be around as much as usual. Do not take my silence as a sign other than simply not being available. And please do not threaten to take your toys and go home because the game is not being played as you think it should. Sticking your fingers in your ears while closing your eyes and singing loudly does nothing to promote discussion or understanding. This is the majority of the problem in my opinion to start with of the defining differences between those of faith and those not of faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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