Just Plain Ruff

i read somewhere (don't quote me) but that for the entire air ambulance industry, I'm assuming fixed wings are in there too that they transport about 1/2 million patients per year. That seems high but I'm thinking that's the number they gave. So we have 9 fatal helicopter crashes this year with 4 souls per helicopter (patient, pilot, medic and nurse) that is 36 dead if all 4 die in each crash. Now add 4 more because one crash was a double helicopter crash and that's 40 people. Now take the 500K and multiply that by 4 because of 4 people on board and that's 2million people per year flying and transporting. so 40 into 2000000 is a fatality rate of 0.000002 percent. Seems like a pretty safe profession to me. I know it might not seem safe if you are one of those killed but in the overall scheme of things, it's pretty damned safe. Unfortunately - one crash per decade is too many but that is part of the game and part of the risk. disclaimer *****My figures may not be completely accurate***** but they are close according to the article that I read. Oh I remember where I saw it - USA Today Section A July 1, 2008 paper.

It sure sounds like these two medics should not consider pacing another patient until they get some remedial training.

Dwayne, bein out in the sticks in Afghanistan has made you wise and spunky. I also don't know why we are dishing on Echo. I've seen him in chat, I've seen his posts here and sorry to say, at 14 years young, he's smarter than some of the posters that have come along out of here.

Has your departments lawyer or lawfirm been in touch with you and is it helping you with preparing your testimony. If not, good luck. Your department should be assisting you in this.

Mr. Gavin is almost as culpable as Brewer was. He made her stop driving yet he had no problem letting her drive them to the hospital. What is his excuse for letting her drive? I saw nothing of the sort. He should have notified dispatch the moment he made the switch from her driving to him driving. This cannot be helped now but He is partially responsible for the terrible situation they were involved in. Sorry, there is no grey in this situation.

REmember the volly service in Kentucky that shut their doors because the county would not buy them a new rig???? A bunch of whiners if you ask me. Well they won, they got 30K out of the county for purchase of the new truck. The other 60K will be raised by donations. It really does help if you whine really really loud.

Vent, those references you mentioned are always grounds for refusing a call. IF the truck is broken or unsafe then no way am I going to respond. The other references are valid also.

actually, when I was in the field I could guarantee that each piece of my inventory list was there. IF it wasn't I didn't go anywhere, of course there are pieces that may not be as important as ET tubes but if there was 4 7.0 et tubes then there were 4 7.0 et tubes. If there was supposed to be 25 alcohol swabs, then there were 25 unless of course we caught a call before I could get them all counted and I didn't consider them ciritcal pieces of equipment when I could get them form the ER. We in EMS (street) do not really have the luxury of refusing to go on a call. If we did then maybe we'd be different but Air EMS is different, There is minimal to no surviving a helo crash. That's the difference, you have a good chance of surviving a ambulance crash. i also think that being able to refuse in certain instances like hurricane, torrential rainstorm with major flooding, or a serious Ice storm that we should be able to do that. Tornado would be on my list too. if you can't get to the call then you don't go. But in the overall scheme of things, you go where called. It's up to you to make it there safely. Sometimes that is harder than it appears.

TMZ, I know who guided my trip yesterday. I know that it was not my doing. I was actually travelling for business and this is the 2nd time I've had to do this on a sick patient. The first patient ended up coding in the ambulance in Detroit. This guy just took 1 too many bp pills and his pressure bottomed out. When in doubt, if you go off your meds for a month and then want to start back up just take two to make up for lost time. Not a einstein moment. This guy was a supernice guy though. I hope to see him again monday when we fly back out again.

Absolutely but here are the other factors of some of the services I've worked for (all these services do many many miles a year on long distance transfers. Not unusual for a crew to put 300-600 miles on in a day on transfers) 1. Experience - at one service I worked for the average experience level of the providers was 10 years. That's a lot of driving and good quality ems experience. (in the 2 years I worked there 0 accidents) in the past 10 years at that service 0 accidents overall (and they do 100K miles per year or more on long distance transfers) 2. Driver training - every driver had EVOC training(at one service) 0 accidents at that service 3. Lights and siren use - At service #1 above, rarely if at all did we drive with lights and sirens on. Small town, one stoplight, 0 accidents in 10 years 4. Another service I worked for had a quality dispatch system and their accident rate was quite low. less than 1 accidtent in the 8 years I worked for them Accidents happen all the time, we respond to them daily. But with common sense, vigilence and just plain driving like you should, there should be a minimum number of accidents.

holy aunt jemima I have heard it all. With a single post and one post in support we have all been notified that having a broad base of knowledge is not the key to being a good medic, it's the key to being a stupid medic who has too much skoolin. I know of many many medics who write crappy narratives because they really don't know how to write a grammatically correct sentence. English composition will help them with that. I know of a good many medics who know that anaphylaxis is bad but why it's bad they have no clue. They know that an MI is bad but they don't know why it's bad. Why are nurses required to get at least an associate degree rather than a certificate - that's what a CNA is required to do. They are required to get at least an associate degree and more often than not they are required to get a Bachelors because darn it, thats just what a professional would do. I'll bet the same person that says more education is not the answer also believe that they can do the job of a nurse with a paramedic license. what I do find is that the resistance that is encountered in increasing the educational standards fall from only a few distinct subgroups in EMS. 1. Fire departments who require their FF's to be medics and they only will pay for the minimal education that will get their medics to fulfill their requirements. 2. EMT's who have been emt's forever and they have missed out on getting their medic in the past so now they are faced with the prospect of having to go back and get more than the minimum that used to be required. And finally, those who don't think they can afford to go to school. I know that if you are required to get at least an associates then you are going to a college or community college which offers financial aid. When I went to get my masters degree, I had a terrible credit rating yet i received over 50K in student loans with not even one look at my credit history. The government guarantees these loans until you get out of school. We really have dumbed down the curriculum to the state it is now. When you have people who are revamping the national standards and they are taking out from the medic curriculum some of the basic tenets that we all learned and just giving it a once over then this is where we fall into disrepair. In no way was my medic class long enough. I learned just enough to be dangerous on the streets and it was up to me to further my education. Remember paramedic school is just a base for jumping off. You have to take responsibility to learn more and keep learning. If you refuse to do that then I am not sure if you are an asset to the EMS community or a hindrance. More education is the answer, not dumbing down the curriculum so the least common denominator can pass with one hand behind their back and their eyes covered, making it so easy that a caveman can do it. let me close with this one question If you are the victim of a GSW or having a heart attack, do you want someone who did the minimum taking care of you or do you want someone who actually went the extra mile in their schooling, for me, I'll take that guy who did the minimum any day over the overachiever. (sarcasm) but that is what I see on these responses every day here. "I only want to do what I have to do to get my license, the rest is too hard, whaa whaa whaa!""

Shouldn't this girl be featured on Stupid People Tricks with David Letterman?

Guys i'm not some turnip that fell off the truck. I know that Allah is god and God is God. What I was trying to relate is that I've treated many muslims over the years and never has anyone of them said God Bless You. It just never happened. I used the wrong words but there it is.

You know I agree with you Seven. But what I think we need to go further on is to shine the light on this type of thing. You cannot begin to change either the mortality rate in EMS or the theft rate in EMS/FIRE/Law enforcement until you shine a light on the darkness so to speak. If there was accountability for actions instead of slaps on the wrists then there would be increased professionalism. When a disgraced firefighter or paramedic or police officer can go to another state and work there without sanctions or restrictions simply because their backgrounds are not checked that is a major problem. Case in point, the small town I used to work for employed a young studly police officer. He would trade getting out of tickets for blowjobs and the like. The girls that he traded this for were teenage girls. He was caught because another officer stopped a girl who said that Officer you know who would let her off with a BJ. He was found out and he immediately admitted the deeds and quit and left town. A year down the road it is found out that he is working for another police agency 3 states away. This officers deeds were corroborated by over 20 girls recounting over 50 incidents of this behaviour by this officer. No charges were ever filed but it went on his record. There are other stories out there but that's one that sticks out in my mind.

yes he did but he said he'd tell us later.

I jsut spent the last hour on the phone with Dustdevil. he is currently nursing a broken Arm and a broken leg(it's an old healing break). The arm is new. He has been going to physical therapy 5 days a week and popping vicodin like pez or skittles. He says that he refuses to come back here until he can type with both hands. That should be in about 6 weeks. Amazingly he hasn't even been lurking if you can believe that.

zilla just to confirm Terris item she's selling that was yours, it's amazing and should fetch a little over a dollar and a quarter.

actually 0 crashes ever is what we want but we all know that is unrealistic. Hopefully the NTSB recommends new safety procedures. I think one first step would be this Helicopter shopping. What happens there is that if one cannot take the flight then you call the next helicopter service and the next until you get one that will take it. Calling one and they say no then No other services can be called.

This is the 9th serious medical helicopter crash this year. That's more than one per month.

My eyes, my eyes.

I don't understand where you got the idea that I think all bad wrecks are caused by big rigs. I don't think I ever made that statement. I said some of the worst wrecks I have been to have been big rig accidents. I worked in EMS for 15 years, logged over 50K miles per year and never once responded to a bad accident involving an ambulance. maybe I wasn't in the right place at the right time but I've responded to plenty of accidents involving big rigs that were very bad. Let me ask you a question, you criticize me for not allowing for grey areas, when it comes to our safety in EMS, our driving and our behaviour in EMS, is there a grey area? According to your statement referring to me that there must be a grey area in there somewhere. I don't see any grey areas in the way we drive in EMS, the way we respond to our safety. There are no grey areas when it comes to my safety. If you feel that there are grey areas relating to my safety and yours, then I ask you why do you allow it? I for sure never allowed grey areas when I worked when it came to my safety and the publics. Do you?

folks, there are NO accidents only happenstances. today I had one of the most surreal flight experiences I've had in the past 7 years of flying. This morning another passenger named Michael Ruff and I (michael ruff) were checked in to the same plane and same boarding group as each other, a mistake by the curbside checkin guy. I noticed his boarding pass when he got in line that it was showing Michael Ruff boarding group A position number 23. Well that was my exact number so we started talking and he indeed was Michael Ruff but not from Raymore but from Lee's Summit. We talked a bit more and then boarded the plane. 5 minutes later the gate agent came and got me off the plane. The gate agent said that I was supposed to go to Baltimore not Chicago and my correct boarding pass was out at the ticket agent. I picked up my ticket and sat down. Then it was time to board the plane. All was well. 50 minutes outside of Baltimore, a request came over head asking for a paramedic, nurse or doctor to ring their call button. I did and they ushered me back 10 rows to a obviously sick male who was having a bit of a blood pressure problem. I started to talk to him and he was quite sick. About that time a Physician who was also on board came up as well as a Nurse who I knew from my paramedic days was also on the flight. We found out this was a medication issue but that did not make the guy less sick. I was able to talk to the captain on the plane while the physician talked to the patient. They then patched us thru to the Southwest Airlines medical corps which they were really nice. They asked me if we needed to divert to the nearest airport and I said not quite yet we aren't done wiht the assessment. The physician and Nurse sort of deferred to me for the skills part and I was able to start an IV, put oxygen on him and get him situated better on the rows of seats. They said they would have Baltimore EMS at the gate waiting for us, they cleared the landing path for us to come in first over about 10 other planes. We landed with the patient's blood pressure raised from 80/40 to 100/68 and an increase of his pulse rate. The patient was very thankful and so was southwest airlines and the flight crew. this is the 2nd time I've had to do this in my travels and it doesn't get any easier each time. I truly believe that from the start this morning wiht the mix up between me and the other other michael ruff that this was ordained and not anything that I had a hand in. As a matter of fact, this guy even though he was muslim(he said so to me) he said God Bless You to me and I told him he was gonna be OK. Again, there really are no accidents. This was not an accident I was on the plane.

Seven how long have you been in EMS? Some of the worst accidents have been caused by big-rigs busting the lights. Had a terrible accident at a previous job where the big rig ran the red because it didn't want to slow down to stop and then have to start back up. 2 people lost their lives because a big rig busted the light. You have to quit while you are ahead buddy, some of your arguments are just plain out there. (big rigs don't run thru red lights, I had to stifle a laugh) Have you ever been at an intersection where a big rig is barreling down and actually speeding up to beat the red? I can say for sure that they do indeed create anxiety, at least you might survive getting hit by an ambulance but go up against a big rig and you are DEAD!!!! Please, quit while you are ahead or at least think about your answers or posts before you post them. In other words, as a friend of mine said when I put my foot in my mouth "Think McFly, Think"

Mike, you've been around, I don't believe it. I didn't mean to direct my last at you, it was more towards the general group rather than you or anyone in particular. :wink:

I agree this is like any other thread on this forum, we start on one thing and then we move off to another totally different slant. Is this productive, yes at times it is, at other times it is not. I think that since a generalization was made about everyone without healthcare being less healthy and using EMS more I took exception to that blanket statement. In no way did I try to hijack the thread.