nwoparamedics

Not on a call... but the absolutely stupidest thing I've ever said at work has to be when I was just starting out at the bright age of 18 and just meeting the nursing staff for the first time. After about a week into it... I innocently asked one of the emerg room nurses if she was pregnant.... Duhhh... I was 18..... but quickly covered by saying... "oh sorry... I just heard that one of the nurses over hear is pregnant... and had no idea who it was...." Yepp... she still hates me

Hahaha... this is SOOOO wrong Can't stand sugar... and can't get through the day without at least 3-4 XL Tim Hortons coffee

I like that Asysin2leads....well explained.... I've always considered myself in the Medical field first and foremost (from our medical education, to being funded and controlled by our Ministry of Health... the term Emergency Medical Services says it all)... yet cannot even fathom that we would not be in the Public Safety classification as well. We work side by side with our Physicians, Nurses, Police, Fire Fighters and First Responders... I'd say we cover several aspects rolled into one system.

Thinking from our local perspective... Physicians and Surgeons usually have in their contracts a longer response time when called in for an emergency. No need for them to be there when we were still on scene... and allowed them time to finish up whatever they were doing at home (i.e. supper, night out, etc...) i.e. we had 5-7 mins to be in the rig and on the road when called in... physicians had 25 mins to get to the hospital (we weren't allowed any Lights/Sirens on our personal vehicles... only Fire Department Volunteers) [*]We have somewhat eliminated the problem of impaired emergency responders with shiny lights in the outlying communites (we quit calling for their assistance for a couple of years... and made sure if anyone did show up in that form... the PD did something about it)... I'm thinking the Surgeons would not have this attitude of "we're on call 24/7... can't be sober all the time (oh yea... then why were we sober was my question to them ???)". [*]Most of the accidents that have occured have involved youthfull enthusiasm when just starting in EMS, or an impairment of sorts... (yeppers... 24/7 crew....) maybe this wouldn't be too much of a problem with the age factor... or professional factor? So.... why not? Would it hurt?

Sad, and scarey. Our local Pulp and Paper mill (now US owned - Weyerhauser) bought an AED a few years back... and it still sits in the back room collecting dust. They had permission to buy one from head office, yet once they purchased it, found out they needed a Physician to train them on it and certify them to use it. Needless to say... good paperweight.

You Are a Seeker Soul You are on a quest for knowledge and life challenges. You love to be curious and ask a ton of questions. Since you know so much, you make for an interesting conversationalist. Mentally alert, you can outwit almost anyone (and have fun doing it!). Very introspective, you can be silently critical of others. And your quiet nature makes it difficult for people to get to know you. You see yourself as a philosopher, and you take everything philosophically. Your main talent is expressing and communicating ideas. Souls you are most compatible with: Hunter Soul and Visionary Soul

The Beaver Wahoo... the Canuck national symbol ... and the best thing that ever happened to Molson "Canadian" beer commercials

Ridryder 911, I really wish it was old news to some of us... but in our arse backward system :wink: it is still considered a delegated medical act, and a physician has full control over everyone that uses these almost idiot proof boxes. Until they relinquish some control... unfortunately places like Ontario will not see them used extensively in the public. And relenquishing control is not a strong suit of some government officials... no matter how much we evolve.

Ha... sorry about the above post being so long... but with our recent yearly budget having problems passing at the district level, I'm getting a bit miffed at some of the misconceptions that some are spewing and that others have due to our lack of educating the public about what EMS is and what we do. We need a modest district wide increase to maintain services that are mandated by the province, and the communities are balking at anything except cutting EMS services. Yet on the other hand... a well established, community funded service such as Policing or Fire Services with managers paid for and reporting to the community have no problems gaining additional funding and actually improving their services instead of just maintaining status quo. While our cuts are being completated... our volunteer Fire Service just purchased a new ladder truck for the tune of almost $1 million last year (the old one was just that... although no miles or hours on it... the community had to pay more insurance as it wasn't new enough), built a brand spanking new HUGE fire hall along with bar/lounge area off limits to the public for the tune of another $1.2 million... and this is all on top of their yearly million some odd dollar budget. They get a freaking 200-400 calls a year... and it is a volunteer service. Yes... I am envious :wink: Our Police services fall along the same lines... multi-million dollar budgets, brand new HUGE station this year, new vehicles and toys... the list goes on. The community didn't even wink when their paid managers... the Fire Chief or Police Chief... asked and got the monies for these improvements. Our EMS service as stated in the above post is staffed round the clock with a roughly 1/2 million dollar budget and our DISTRICT wide budget is roughly what our single community spent on it's Police and Fire Services in this past year. I know... we need to get off our duffs and do public relations, we need to have our Managers sit in on town council meetings and sub-committees even if they don't want us to be in on their meetings (we are not employed by the community... funded by the district, reporting to the communities). We will never have the ear of the community mayors and council like their paid managers have (the communities are paying their Fire Chiefs and Police Chiefs, and should listen to their upper management... but should also have input from a different perspective and take all input with a grain of salt... don't we all want to better our departments?). We have a lot to do as a profession in educating the public, and especially our community leaders on how cost effective we are out of all the emergency services, and we need to take the lessons learned by our counter parts and work towards improving our services like they have. We also have to stand up once in awhile and educate those whom are listening to their paid mangers when ideas like Fire-based EMS come up...we need to step into these private meetings and educated them on the differences between the services, not just from a Fire perspective, yet give them a view from an Emergency MEDICAL Service perspective, show them the commonality of Paramedics and other Health Care Providers, need to educated them on the possible problems associated with take-overs... and not let them be hoodwinked by those whom may be in it for other reasons. I say... lets take over the Fire Services... lets at least save our communities in the duplication of the administration costs (we provide district services... not duplication in every community), lets streamline their services and use some of their extra funding to increase ours and put the well needed funds into getting ALS care into our communities... :wink: :wink: We don't want to be Fire Fighters nor Police Officers, and they sure don't want to be Paramedics... but we might be able to save our communities some funds if they ran their services like we do in EMS. Who is cost effective... EMS. Who needs to show cost effectiveness.... ??? chazmedic, despite my rants... I truly do like our Fire Department, they are an awesome group of guys and do a tremdous job. I just can't understand how the IAFF president can spew this balony... and have no respect for him or his followers in their stated attempt to secure job positions despite the consequences to EMS.

Sorry guys and gals... but this is what I can't wrap my mind around. I guess coming from my background... and not knowing much about for profit agencies, but.... EMS is the most cost effective and cheapest to run out of Paramedic, Police and Fire Services.... at least here. We don't make a cent for our taxpayers, yet our service runs at less than 1/2 the cost of our local volunteer fire department, and about 1/4 of the cost of one of our local Police Services. We are only staffed one car, 24 hours a day... the Police service has 3-4 officers on per shift, and our Fire Services only have a chief and deputy chief on during the day... the rest are volunteer (yet their volunteer stipends are almost 1/3 to 1/2 hour yearly wages). Our Police Services are publicly funded, our Fire Services are publicly funded, as are we. The Fire Services can charge $$ when they respond to residents/accidents outside of our community, yet they are not allowed to charge to those whom already pay taxes and fund them. We sometimes get reimbursement when we pick up an out of province person... but other than that... nada. So... I don't really understand how a community can save money by having Fire take over EMS. It is not logical, cost effective, nor sane in anyway shape or form... I know my perspective is fairly focused due to our province, yet this variation of costs is compounded in the larger centers where Fire Services have paid staff on site. We just can't compete with budgets, equipment, buildings, nor the sheer volume of staff. I understand the Fire Services need for their budgets... their staff, their equipment... and am truly thankful they are their to assist us when we need the help on calls. I truly enjoy the aspect that over the years they have gotten into public relations, safety training with our schools, helping out with First Response, and all the other things they have gotten into due to the downtime... and thank them from the bottom of my heart for their help in our communities. Yet... the people I work with the most are the Nurses and Physicians of out local hospital, and our Police whom are our First Response to almost all our calls. If we have anything in common, or lets say the most in common... wouldn't it make more sense to amalgamate our EMS back into the hospital based system (arghh... gotta admit I still dread the thought of returning to that system), or amalgamating to share administrative costs with the Police? It confuses me further when I look at this from a district wide provision of services... as we have roughly a dozen communities that fall under one administrative roof whereas our local Fire and Policing do not. We have a very lean hierarchy, very lean administrative staff... and somehow, someway... we still manage to get the services provided to our district (albeit we don't have staff to do the public education, to do first response for other services, to do building inspections, etc...). If we actually looked at amalgamation of services... it would make more sense for EMS to take over the Fire Services... eliminate all the duplication in administrative costs. I can also understand the Fire Services delving into all these other projects since their public relations and community involvement has led to a decrease in call volumes... I'm not that naive. I can see the need for having the staff available... just in case... that is part of what they do (as do we). I also remember when tiered response was first initiated in some of our cities way back when, and the reasons for it (justification of having the sheer volume of staff available, and number of stations compared to Police and EMS). I remember the fighting that occurred when EMS budgets where halted, as the need for more EMS personal existed, yet the government found a way to get someone, anyone... to respond to the medical emergency in the quickest amount of time. But in all honesty... if it weren't for Medical related calls... the volume of Fire Related calls that a Fire Service responds to would be far less than it is today. So... when I look at cost effectiveness... yes... by sending Fire Services personal out to EMS calls... I can see how the communities are making the most out of their paid Fire Fighters. I can see why they are involved in so many things... but I really can't get a grip on how it is cost effective to take over an already lean and cost effective emergency service provider? And onto my next bit of confusion... wages. EMS is typically and consistently the lowest paid of Emergency Services. If for example we were to look at cross-training and combining departments.... how does the cost savings occur? Just rough estimates thrown out here, but.... You pay a Fire Fighter 70 grand a year [*]You pay an PCP 50 grand a year [*]You pay an ACP 60 grand a year Where do you get your cost savings with the new combined, cross trained staff? What happens when you train that PCP in house as a Fire Fighter? Do they now get paid more? [*]What happens when you train that ACP in house as a Fire Fighter? Do they get paid more than the PCP Fire Fighter? [*]How do you pay a Fire Fighter his/her wage, send them back to school for 2 years while being paid? [*]How do you pay a Fire Fighter his/her wage new PCP/Fire Fighter wage... and send them back to school for another year for their ACP training? [*]How the heck much does an ACP/Fire Fighter make????? So... I know the EMT/EMT-P system is quite different than ours here in Ontario (with respect to wages, college time, etc..), but the jist of the above still stands. How much more do you pay someone whom is cross-trained? With my limited view of the system, I can see a cost savings if it were an EMS Service taking over a Fire Service (because of our lean administrative aspect and district wide provision of services).... yet I don't see how it would work otherwise. Who's all for an EMS run Fire Service? Please someone... educate me on how Fire Services taking over EMS can be cost effective here in Ontario... other than the justification of having a service to bolster the stats.... please.

Here the Fire Services gain access for us, and we preform patient care and extrication. As well, we have excellent communications between EMS and Fire. One of the medics is in with the patient, and one of the fire fighters kneeling right beside that medic, both of them sharing their plans of what they would like done for the benefit of the patient. I'll say... hmm... thinking of KED'ing and then moving to spine board to ease extraction... he'll say... easier to flap the roof on this one... we both go....heh... lets do it this way then. It did take a few years to get it to work so well for us, and along the way we ended up going into their "auto extrication" courses... demonstrating how and why we do the things we do. We did some presentations on our equipment, explained why we do certain things, and then helped out in a few demonstrations where they had to deal with us and a patient instead of just an empty vehicle. In turn, they taught us how their equipment worked, ways to gain access to a patient, taught us all about the hazards that we had been overlooking (we had no idea about some of the new technology among other things... they just don't teach us that in EMS)... and this understanding helped both of us work together better at a scene. I really loved learning how to use all the toys... what a blast... and now I understand a lot better of where they are coming from when they suggest a certain way to access the patient. But... I always make sure I tell them what I want first, and why I am thinking it (patient injuries, condition, etc...) and then we both work at it from there.

Because they are told to by their leader in an effort to protect jobs..... Information supplied by the International Association of Fire Fighters web site... loud and clear.... http://www.iaff.org/secure/content/ems/index.html http://daily.iaff.org/emsconf/061203ems.aspx

Thought these press releases would be relevant:

Actually there is no legal minimum... except for the provincial minimum wage under the ESA. From a old timers prospective (and only one persons view from the remote part of the province, so take it with a huge grain of salt): Most of the wages increases over the past few years in Ontario have come from the changes the Government made to education and operational standards in and around the year 2000/2001. In short, the government changed the legislation to state that all communities providing EMS had to have qualified staff on each ambulance with exceptions being made for the first few years to allow one qualified, one student if no others could be found. Once the changes had begun to be implemented, providers across the province experienced a shortfall of qualified medics, the colleges got next to no notice (with the government finally granting the request to change from a 3 semester to 4 semester program at this time didn't help the crunch either) and couldn't fill the demand right away, and thus the wages shot through the roof. The government also introduced legislation at the time to combat the huge rate increases the employers were going to see (the ambulance services collective bargaining act), although by the time most areas got the chance to go in front of an arbitrator, it was pretty much the case of "the neighbouring community is making how much... and you are expecting to recruit staff by offering $10/hr less???). The trend we saw with the huge wage increases is definitely subsiding at this point in time, as well as the shortages of staffing. Do I think we are getting paid to much as Paramedics? Not a chance... When it comes to a comparison of our allied agencies... Police, Fire (heck, our volunteer FF stipends are what my old full time wage used to be) and Nursing still make more than we do. For that matter, my sisters first year of teaching grade 7-8 students... she made the same as me (working now on my 18th year in EMS). But... when I look back at where I started.. $20/call and $1.40/hr on call as a volunteer in the 80's.... $12/hr once qualified in the early 90's... yea... it kinda shocks me still to make $30/hr now But then again for the same wages now... I can go sweep floors in a mill, assemble parts in a factory, haul wood in the bush for the same amount... but that wouldn't be any fun .. think I'll stay happy where I am.

Dang... I think I live in a different Ontario than where this information came from. If the colleges were paying medic instructors this much... we'd have no problem getting more of them. Maybe these wages are for the Department heads??? Which brings up another point: Therein lies the problem... the wages really chew for Paramedics looking at instructing the College courses (as compared to FT medic positions), that's why we have so many problems getting anyone to leave the field and go into teaching the courses. If one could make as much $$ teaching the courses, or was gaurenteed full time hours, it might be an option. For now, a lot of the instructors are doing the instructing part-time over and above their full time medic jobs (at least in the North).... or are in it for other reasons.

Heh FarNorthMedic, gotta give ya credit for workin' that far north Back to the topic though... our local fire services vary from mostly volunteer, to only two communities having some paid firefighters on duty. EMS... no such thing as volunteer here anymore. Students are still allowed to work part-time in EMS up until the end of this year in Ontario, then you have to be qualified to work on a rig (like rules for running a hospital or what have ya). If there are any medics working as volunteers anywhere in the province... I'd be really surprised... to say the least. It's been extremely costly to the communities to have to recruit medics to fill positions that were previously filled by volunteer EMA's, but for the system itself (and for the fact that for many of our communities, the medics are the only health care available) what can I say... nice to see the government/public recognizing that medics personal are more than just a taxi / handi-transit.

1997 GMC Yukon SLE 4x4 1986 Ford F150 Flareside 4x4 (aussie locked with Birch bed/stainless) 1981 Yamaha RD350LC two stroke street bike 1996 MXZ 583 1993 Mach 1 1976 CJ5 (building up as rock buggy) and most recent... 2005 21hp Craftsman Garden Tractor which I think is the most fun

When i first started off in the eighties... being a teenager I had the long hair. I had two problems with it, waking up with bed head (and when ya were on call, ya should have seen some of the looks the patients gave me when I knocked on their doors at 4am ), and the simple fact that alot of our patients were getting up in age and did not agree with men having anything but short hair (like so many did back back in their day). They would automatically talk to my partner... and ignore the young guy with the long hair. I later on ended up shaving it all off for our local "cops for cancer" where we raised $$ for one of our community members whom had passed away to breast cancer in her late 30's, and have kept it pretty much the same way ever since. In hindsight, I loved having the hair (instead of the now shiny balding look which I'm afraid my never grow back ), yet when I see our rookies come in the door with all the unique hair styles/goatees, what have you... and see how the older people react (takes them a bit longer to warm up to them), I guess I will stick with the minimal fuss, no combing buzz cut I've had for soo long. A lot of our calls are dealing with those 60, 70 and above, and as much as I hate to admit it, alot of that age group grew up with the short hair for guys attitude from the second world war era... and still hold to their old ways.

Hmm... started out as a volunteer/part-timer back in the late '80's when that was allowed here, then after college went to f/t and have been doing this as a career ever since.... :roll:

How does 207,000 square miles sound? Actually, we use 21 vehicles, with roughly 100 PCP's, 8 bases, lots of volunteer First Response Teams and of course, the provincial medi-vac system (fixed wing/rotary) to cover our district as it is roughly the size of France. Needless to say, extremely long transport times to the communities with road access, and the only way in or out of the remote communities is by air so the air medics do those communities in our district.