What career if not EMS?

[JPINFV]

Ya know why there are so many well paying jobs for network geeks?

Because nobody volunteers to do it for free.

Ya know why there are so few well paying jobs for Paramedics?

Think about it.

Because, unfortunately, EMS is so easy a caveman can do it?

[Dustdevil]

Volunteerism may affect salaries in some areas. However, in many rural settings, there is no other option. When you have a community that averages 300 calls (or less) per year, it is hard to justify paying several full time salaries to cover it and when coverage areas are measured in 40+ square miles, response times from a paid service, not based in the community, would be just as high or higher than the current volunteer service. The ultimate side effect of going fully paid would be a drastic increase in taxes in rural areas.

You are, of course, very wrong. Hopefully, you're smart enough to figure out why, because I think everybody here is tired of explaining it to people who don't even try.

Because, unfortunately, EMS is so easy a caveman can do it?

EMS isn't that easy.

But EMT school is.

[FredG]

You are' date=' of course, very wrong. Hopefully, you're smart enough to figure out why, because I think everybody here is tired of explaining it to people who don't even try.[/quote']

I am basing my opinion on my 14 years experience in EMS, from both paid and volunteer. The first 9 years were in NYC, both paid (3.5 years) and volunteer, and the last 5 have been in very rural county. Of that 14 years, 6 have been at various levels of administration of a volunteer service.

As far as rural areas going paid, there are recent studies that show if all of NYS volunteer providers (fire and EMS) switched to a paid service, and to maintain the same level of care, would cost NYS taxpayers approximately 37 billion dollars per year. Here's a link to a calculator that will allow you to enter statistics about your community, including potential salaries, and it will show a cost comparison:

http://www.nvfc.org/news/2004-cost-savings.html

Based on this calculator, to provide the same level of fire and ems service, as a fully paid department, as we provide right now would increase taxes on a 200K home by over $1250 a year. I have not found any studies that are only concerned with EMS.

Yes, EMS billing would offset some of those expenses, but at 300 calls a year, it would barely pay for insurance and equipment.

Anyway, everybody has their opinion. Telling someone that their opinion is "very wrong" shows a closed mind.

Agreed!

[speedysducky]

speaking on my dad's behalf I know that he got burned out on EMS after holding an ex con's head together for the 5th time after a robbery, so he went into computers, and teaching. Now designs gas station awnings and raises mules and horses, he's never been happier!

[spenac]

Yes, EMS billing would offset some of those expenses, but at 300 calls a year, it would barely pay for insurance and equipment.

Wrong I part time with a rural service with maybe 250 runs a year. EMS is supported by billing transports and non-transports. The deficit is covered by about $60 per year per homeowner, aprox 900 homes. This service pays 4 full time with benefits medics, and has about 4 regular part timers and 2 or 3 of us that will try and cover a couple of shifts a month for them. Do they pay good, no not really, basics start at $9 hour plus overtime. So nobodys getting rich, but they're not holding other services back by being vollys. I hear it all the time at my primary service(about 700 calls a year and hospital is 90 miles away) , WHY CAN"T WE BE A VOLLY DEPT LIKE SO AN SO? So yes vollys hurt us when we try for pay raises, when we try and get more people on staff, when we try and better serve the people the coverage they deserve based on the taxes they already pay.

That calculator you used is in my honest opinion probably controlled by communitys that are trying to avoid people being paid for doing the job, regardless of what is claimed.

Not trying to argue with you but I to was a volly and thought the same crap you do. I started looking at the money the city and county wasted on holiday decorations, throwing partys and festivals, etc. That alone could have at least paid half of what it would cost to go payed service, the rest could have been covered by the billing. So I say if it looks like crap, smells like crap, it's crap. Or to be more polite if it quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, looks like a duck, its a duck. Sorry, I feel strongly about this for 2 reasons Myself and my family suffer because of vollys hurting pay, and because it makes me mad that I was stupid enough to think the way I used to.

Have a nice day. Rantings of a tired old man will continue later.

[dougd]

Ya know why there are so many well paying jobs for network geeks?

Because nobody volunteers to do it for free.

Ya know why there are so few well paying jobs for Paramedics?

Think about it.

I seriously doubt that volunteering on the Northeast Ohio Medical Reserve Corps, where we are used as MCI/disaster backup by a couple of agencies and, for the most part, do little more than provide first responder services for non-profit fundraising events such as the MS Society bike rides and the ADA fund raisers is costing anyone any high paying jobs. Those organizations would simple go without having anyone on hand if they didn't get it donated to them.

That said, I was not clear in my posting, I'm not running on a VFD. Where I live they are very few and far between, and while I have applied to a couple of FDs that hire part-timers, again those are paid positions.

[spenac]

As far as rural areas going paid, there are recent studies that show if all of NYS volunteer providers (fire and EMS) switched to a paid service, and to maintain the same level of care, would cost NYS taxpayers approximately 37 billion dollars per year. Here's a link to a calculator that will allow you to enter statistics about your community, including potential salaries, and it will show a cost comparison:

http://www.nvfc.org/news/2004-cost-savings.html

Based on this calculator, to provide the same level of fire and ems service, as a fully paid department, as we provide right now would increase taxes on a 200K home by over $1250 a year. I have not found any studies that are only concerned with EMS.

As already stated I call this calculator crap. I looked at it even more and I am even more convinced it's crap. You punch in numbers to make it say what you want to prove. It is not very scientific at all.

The biggest change from volly to paid is just salarys. You already have building and vehicle expenses. You already have equipment and supplys. So all those other numbers mean nothing.

So you are a small rural community. One ambulance run as a volly. You go paid, same 1 ambulance still. If you staffed it correctly you would have 6 full timers and 2 part timers. And lets assume it is a city / county that decides not to make you get the federal 106 hours before overtime each 2 weeks but actually does overtime at 80 hours every 2 weeks, so full timers will get 16 overtime hours every 2 weeks. We're going to pay $12/hr Paramedic and $10/hr EMT-B. Total wages paid and taxes, workers comp, etc would be less than $250,000 per year. So assuming you get $0 dollars from any patients and you have a community of 2000 people, that would would equate to about 1000 homes, This comes to an additional expense of only $250 per house. Keep in mind this is not even including vacant lots and businesses which also pay taxes, so actually would be much less. Now we also know it would even be less because we will be billing for our services. But again worst case scenario is $250 per house per year, really not that much to have someone immediately available when my child stops breathing.

So I call BS on your calculator. I've been here done that.

Now I personally I do not see paying a rural fire service that might roll out 1 or 2 times a month in a busy month. But lets say we decide to have paid slash call out fire. You keep two FF's at the station. They can take the foam rig and knock down the grass fire or cut the top off a car. If they need to call in more help at that time start paying those called in. So now we add an additional $250 worst case per house for a total of $500 per year per house. Again would not actually be anywhere near that amount in reality when you just add in money from businesses and vacant land, besides the money EMS and fire bills and receives for each call.

Also there grants for much of the equipment, training and supplies.

So foul, BS, crap, etc. So in reality paid EMS is not much more expensive to run than a volly service. So lets cut the crap and all go professional.

[frontcrawl]

Read the press release, the whole thing just screams "Right, so being volunteer firefighter whacker types we're aware of the obvious superiority of volunteer fire departments (IE our continuing ability to pursue this as a hobby, ego or whatever) so let's go release some pseudoscientific crap "study" to support our stance."

Perhaps the New Jersey State First Aid Council could put out some prop-I mean resources to support the efforts of those hard working AMERICAN HEROES (oops, that's that other bunch, the one with hoses) volly quasi-EMS types to prevent the establishment of proper regional EMS orginizations.

[Dustdevil]

Good call, Crawler.

This is very reminiscent of the recent dubious "study" by Paul Pepe and a bunch of other losers contending that the fire service is the best choice for the provision of EMS. There wasn't a single valid point in the entire paper, but I'm sure it sounded quite impressive to the average guy on the street.

[sassy_emt]

Ever since I was a little girl and saw my first episode of "Emergency" I was fascinated and wanted to know more about the field. Spent my high school years as a nurses aide and after 10 years in retail customer service I wanted a change. I decided to follow the one dream I always had ......to be come a paramedic. I took the first step in my training two years ago and got my EMT-B and next fall will start my medic training. Ultimately I plan on attaining the status of flight medic. But for now I enjoy what I do and enjoy it when my youngest son calls me his " rescue hero".