Guns in wake of Virginia

[hfdff422]

Actually Asys- The "old west" was comparitively crime free in comparison to just about any major city. Yes there were bad people who did bad things and there were good people who were wrongly convicted (at a very high rate), but studies have shown that the entire Western half of the North American continent from 1860 to 1870 (these years are an estimate but close to what the study stated- it was a 10 year period post gold rush) had a lower crime rate per capita and total crimes reported than New York City in 1989. While there are a huge amount of variables, this is a comparison of a time when the citizens policed themselves to a time when guns were all but outright banned in a modern major metropolitan city.

[WendyT]

Everytime there is a tragedy, hollywood comes out of the wood work to make yet another movie, why would I care to know what the killer was thinking, they totally piss me off. I say leave it alone, you're right let them heal first, it doesnt happen over night, it's a process that takes forever and maynot be totally healed because of the conscequences.

I'd like to tell Hollywood where to get off . . .

[Eydawn]

I think the issue at hand here is not that gun control needs to be increased, nor that gun manufacture and sale needs to be decreased.

The plain fact of the matter in *this* particular situation is that a mentally deranged psychopath acquired firearms despite all of the legislation that's been enacted, and utilized them to take the lives of 32 innocent people and injure several more. He also caused a giant national problem that is hurting *many* innocent people at this very moment. Grief, paranoia, and overreactive school districts, to name part of that problem.

The gun sale checks failed. The system is not at fault; the application of it is where we have seen the failure.

He also managed to fly under the radar of mental health professionals because (IN MY OPINION WITH LIMITED EXPERIENCE) it is a very fine line to walk in this nation regarding where you make the judgement call to completely restrict someone, and when you wait to see if the individual in question gets better or worse per whatever treatment course (or lack thereof) that is being undertaken. Obviously that judgement call was grossly in error, and any professional in the realm of psychiatry/psychology that has ever had an encounter with this individual is probably undergoing a crisis regarding their competence and culpability.

And people *miss* stuff. I know individuals who have given off blatant warning signs of mental illness or instability who have completely escaped the notice of teachers and (on the college level) residential coordinators until a crisis point was reached. I'm talking *glaring* red flags, perhaps not to the level of seriousness exhibited by the VA nut, but flags that should have been intercepted and dealt with much sooner than they were.

People need to be aware of this stuff. You can't afford to not care on some level about the person next to you. Take an interest in them. Figure out what's going on and for the love of Mike, if you see something that strikes you as frightening, if context is reasonable, then contact whatever authority is most appropriate for where you are.

Guns are an accessory in killing people... but so are fertilizer, oxygen tanks, bricks, biological and chemical agents, and fists. They all operate on different scales. I don't believe for a second that further restricting guns will make me one bit safer in my every day life. We *always* run the risk of dying on any given day from any given cause, including school or workplace tragedies brought about by psychopaths. Be aware of your surroundings! Grow a little bit of healthy paranoia and know where your exits are and how you would react to a situation like this!

I am firmly convinced that this individual would have killed as many if not more people if he had not had access to guns. Might have taken him a little longer, but that kind of psychopathy is what leads to serial killers. It's just things like this that shock the collective consciousness that come to the surface and create the atmosphere of sacrificing freedoms for a sliver of "safety".

You are never safe. Get over it. Learn to deal with it.

It's going to be debated until the end of time as to whether restricting private gun ownership will prevent tragedies. I don't think it will, and that's my take on the matter. You might trade a single act of horrendous violence for many smaller acts of evil by doing so, but in the end you do not keep people any safer. Look at home invasion crime rates in Britain. Look at muggings and personal attacks. Give it a couple years- I guarantee you that if someone wanted to perpetrate an act like this in Great Britain or Australia, they would find a way to do so. All that more gun legislation will do is take away the ability of the average Joe or Josephine to protect home and family, and completely remove the ability for the population to correct matters if the government should degenerate into something that no American citizen wants to see. I don't remember who said it, and I'm sure someone will supply that, but a quote from my US History course has stuck with me.

To paraphrase: When the government becomes so abjectly corrupt that it is no longer tolerable by individuals attempting to live normal lives then it is the duty of that people to overthrow that government and re-establish order.

I hope that day never comes. But I want a fighting chance for survival if things degenerate to that level, and I know taking away guns isn't going to further that aim in the slightest.

Now, can we get off of the gun control argument and look around to see what we can do for each other at this point? A lot of us are edgy for various reasons... let's not add to the atmosphere of severe paranoia and hysteria that sweeps the nation post media coverage of an event like this.

To echo the man whose comments unwittingly started this thread, be safe out there.

Hug your families and tell your friends you care about them. Life is precious and fragile.

Wendy

CO EMT-B

MI EMT-B

[BushyFromOz]

Ahhh, but -5 for living in a country settled to make space for undesirables.

LMAO!

Nice.............

I'm dumbfounded that some of you are comparing the "wild west" to modern society, you out of genuine arguments? :shock:

[AZCEP]

I do believe that Eydawn has made a valid statement. I would take it one step further. The right/privilege of gun ownership is guaranteed by the base of the U.S. government.

No, I'm not going to walk the tired argument of the 2nd amendment out, but if this right is taken away by the government, what will be next? What will the cost of giving up one freedom be? Is it worth it in the end?

[BushyFromOz]

I do believe that Eydawn has made a valid statement. I would take it one step further. The right/privilege of gun ownership is guaranteed by the base of the U.S. government.

No, I'm not going to walk the tired argument of the 2nd amendment out, but if this right is taken away by the government, what will be next? What will the cost of giving up one freedom be? Is it worth it in the end?

I'll ASSume this is the "right to bear arms" argument you speak of?

Id have to say its only a problem if they banned all firearms.

Gun control here after port arthur massacre in 96 i feel had 3 main aims

1. Remove some of the more exotic firearms that really have no purpose other than being a complete wanker (which includes me :wink: )

2. Specified storage requirements including transportation in an aim to prevent the acquisition of firearms for illegal purposes, especially through opportunistic theft

3 Legitimate reasons to own and operate "because i want one" is not an exceptable reason. Proof of permission to shoot vermin on private property or a gun club membership with a number of shoots required a year to maintain proficiency

All of this unobtainable without a safety course

[MedicNorth]

Some interesting info:

The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)

American children are more at risk from firearms than the children of any other industrialized nation. In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States. (Centers for Disease Control)

I would conclude that there is either a very strong correlation between the number of guns and the number of children killed with guns, or the United States has a much higher percentage of criminals in its population, in order to achieve these statistics. Guns do not kill people, it is true - People with guns kill people.

I am still at a loss to understand how getting more guns to more people is going to help this.

[BushyFromOz]

I am still at a loss to understand how getting more guns to more people is going to help this

While i myself can understand the reductions in crime due to scare factor from carry / conceal, i cant help but wonder if the increased risk from blue on blue or accidental discharges would outweigh any benefit :? .

Of course, crims might just think that they will have to shoot people outright then mug their dead bodies :shock:

[Michael]

Nice, Wendy.

[paramedicmike]

Very, very well presented, Wendy.

-be safe