akflightmedic Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Ok gang, here we go again... You and your buddy, best of friends for years. You met in EMT school 10 years ago, double dated, went to medic school together, both of you have since gotten married and had children. Your families hang out often, picnics or just getting together and having a good ol American cookout. Your wives are friends and your kids are friends. You both work hard, heck you are only medics and we know the amount of OT you put in just to get the finer things in life for your family. Things are not always easy but hey, thats the way life is supposed to be. Through a lot of hard work and dedication, you finally get promoted to a training officer position. You are estatic! You love teaching and the hours are M-F with a nice raise. Things are going good. While getting settled into your new job, the Chief decides to task your position with one additional responsibility. He wants you to be Safety Officer as well, whose duty primarily includes random urinalysis screens. No probelm you think. How difficult is it randomly testing people's urine? The way it works, is Human Resources generates a random list and you test them and mark the results. A few weeks later, you get the random people for the day. Your buddy is on the list. You have no concerns as you have known him for years. But, you always have lingering doubts no matter what, so you think about giving him a heads up just for the heck of it. Question #1. Do you give him a heads up? Why or why not? After much internal turmoil, you decide to give him a heads up. He appreciates it and guess what? He says remember the camping trip I went on last week? A joint was passed around and even though I shouldnt have, I took a few hits. What sould I do? Help me out my friend. Question #2. How do you proceed? Many options run through your mind. A. Allow him to come pee and just not watch as intently as you should? B. Advise him to confess to EAP that he has a problem before testing and therefore save his job? C. Be a hard ass. Drugs are drugs and he should have known better! You wrestle with all these thoughts and you think of his wife, kids, career...he is a great guy that made a very bad decision. WHat would you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridryder 911 Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Well first you have to contradicting saying..... "You have no concerns as you have known him for years. But, you always have lingering doubts"..... If you really know him, then you either would have doubts or not... 1. I would NOT give a "heads up" If I really valued and like my new job...sorry, business is business, friends are friends. At the time he is an employee 2. Buddy or not ... He is RESPONSIBLE for his own action, if you did just so happen to warn him, then he should report himself and get help to save his job. This should be discussed in any company as a policy if they are to perform "random test". Remember your not his mother!! 3. As a true friend, he would not put you in the compromise situation as well to have to deal with this. Again, you are friends and did not "make him" do anything. Sorry, offer help to counseling, etc.. but, if it ends the friendship so be it.. then he is not a true friend to YOU! AK sounds like your are in an ethics class.... this is not a teleological but more a deontological theory... R/r 911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vs-eh? Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 They have random urinalysis for EMS in the US? Yikes... Isn't done in Ontario, and I'm going to go out on a limb and say it isn't done in Canada. I've never had to do any drug screening/urinalysis for EMS or any job for that matter. So what...The guy had a couple of toots on a camping trip a week ago and now it could risk his job? He doesn't normally smoke and even if he did big deal. Is it affecting his job performance? His life in general? No... Buddy can get burned for this yet can get absolutely hammered every night and it won't matter? Talk about priorities... I'm no advocate for weed, nor do partake in it with any kind of regularity, but people seriously need to look at what is important. If such testing was done here, I think we'd have some serious staffing issues...I couldn't even fathom what the situation would be like in BC... :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridryder 911 Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Actually, alcohol can be tested as well. It is all considered "substance abuse".. sorry, what you do on your day off is your business, but unfortunately not everybody stops before ahead of time, or allows it to get out of their system. Hence.. that is why there is documented mistakes, accidents, etc. on the work force r/t substance abuse. Many do not have random tests, because then they have to offer rehab. Most employers prefer to "witness" suspicious behavior, and request test. If a positive result returns then usually an automatic dismissal and then a possible hearing of license and certification in most states. R/r 911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaser Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Yea AK- I enjoy your scenarios! Question #1. Do you give him a heads up? Why or why not? No, I wouldn't. To me this resembles giving your friend the answer or heads up to any other department or skills drill/test. After much internal turmoil, you decide to give him a heads up. He appreciates it and guess what? He says remember the camping trip I went on last week? A joint was passed around and even though I shouldn't have, I took a few hits. What should I do? Help me out my friend. You took away an option, so given these... Question #2. How do you proceed? Many options run through your mind. A. Allow him to come pee and just not watch as intently as you should? B. Advise him to confess to EAP that he has a problem before testing and therefore save his job? C. Be a hard ass. Drugs are drugs and he should have known better! So, since now I am forced to give him a heads up, I would pick C. Just submit the names to the lab for testing (actually HIPPA regulations and all, the client numbers...) and just do my job. Would I pass over his name to skip to someone else?? No. Who says the next guy/gal on the list is not a great guy/gal that made a very bad decision. Or maybe they would be clean. Regardless, not my choice. Luck of the draw. Any repercussions from this he has to deal with. If he is a great guy, great career, good history, it's up to him and the powers that be to work out what happens. And who says C rules out B (even if it is after the fact)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akflightmedic Posted November 9, 2006 Author Share Posted November 9, 2006 I will clarify for some people. In most systems, if you go to the EAP ( Employee Assistance Program) before you are ever caught or about to be caught, they will work with you, get you help and in most cases save your job. If you "confess" or admit to a probelm after being caught or as you stand there with cup in hand, most will dismiss you because you are only trying to save your job at that point, as you had no interest in helping yourself prior to us testing you. So a simple heads up would not be in order eh? Not even to steer him towards the EAP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncmedic309 Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 I will clarify for some people. In most systems, if you go to the EAP ( Employee Assistance Program) before you are ever caught or about to be caught, they will work with you, get you help and in most cases save your job. If you "confess" or admit to a probelm after being caught or as you stand there with cup in hand, most will dismiss you because you are only trying to save your job at that point, as you had no interest in helping yourself prior to us testing you. So a simple heads up would not be in order eh? Not even to steer him towards the EAP? And to think some of the situations we face on the streets are tough? I would hate more than anything to be in that position in that particular situation. What do you do? If you give him a heads-up, your likely violating the department policy that's in place for drug testing purposes. If you don't, he might lose his job, his career, and everything else. If you have reason to suspect drug use, it would be more than appropriate to refer that person to EAP. I wish I had better advice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 After you tip him off, but before he gets tested, you friend while on duty kills someone through inattentiveness, then tests positive for cannabis. The accident renders him alert but entirely incapable of communicating, prognosis unknown. Cleaning up his locker, you discover his diary and learn that he's been concealing an agonizingly painful illness for which he has been prescribed cannabis by a physician in another state. You learn from this diary that he has been functioning perfectly for seven years while ill and thus medicated, including moonlighting as a pilot, that his wife and his mother need costly medical care, two of his three children are being bullied at school and need expensive psychotherapy, and he is being blackmailed by a former girlfriend who has a vendetta against your department. His diary also states that his anxiety about your tip-off made him sleepless for two nights before the accident. A new hire has seen you looking at his diary. The new hire has confided in you that he has a terminal illness. He is depressive, a loner, and because you supported his application and built up his morale, considers you his only friend in the world. He has mentioned that he has made you the sole beneficiary of his large life insurance policy. The new hire has repeatedly asked you to kill him, and threatens to kill his nephew's puppy if you don't. The puppy is also terminally ill. The new hire shows up drunk, waving a gun that you alone know to be empty. He runs to the eighth-story roof and is wobbling at its edge in the dark. Unbeknownst to him, you are behind him holding a helium balloon and a hatpin. If you inhale the helium from the balloon, your disguised voice, resembling his sister's (she's a contralto) may dissuade him away from the roof's edge. On the other hand, that balloon could really cheer up your kids... Oh, sorry, different scenario. Please disregard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akflightmedic Posted November 9, 2006 Author Share Posted November 9, 2006 Come on Michael, while very entertaining, it was way off topic. And you didn't even answer the questions. On a side note, I think we could author some hellacious books together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Come on Sorry. I'm still working on how to spend the money in my possession, which I didn't steal from Dust, who didn't steal it from the crack dealer, so I have to leave this one for wiser heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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