Should Volunteer Squads Be Eliminated ?

[Rescue0ne]

Uh....

By posting to this forum...you're not boycotting EMT CITY.

Think about what you're doing before you act.

EDITED BY MYSELF: Previous poster had posted something extremely "anti-volunteer", and Mod deleted it. Ty to our quickacting Mods.

FYI: The same poster also posted same message in other threads within the EMTCITY forum. People like that do not need to be in the EMS Profession. PERIOD.

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[n5iln]

Okay, eight pages into this discussion, and a few people have touched on this, but nobody's come out and said it.

Volunteer EMS exists as an outgrowth of volunteer fire service, which in turn exists as a holdover from the turn of the last century when most rural areas couldn't afford to pay for a full-time department. About two-thirds of all fire service in the US is still volunteer, for two reasons: 1) rural districts are still dirt-poor, so the concept of paying a full-time department is simply out of the question, because the tax base just isn't there to support it, and 2) some people in some places still consider it an honor to donate their time and efforts to community and civic service.

Volunteer EMS isn't going to go away, no matter how much some people might wish it otherwise. Why? Because of money, or the lack thereof. Some services offer subscriptions to help pay the ongoing costs of operation, others simply have a set fee schedule for all runs. Most still have monthly chicken barbecues, spaghetti dinners or the like to put money in their general operating funds. Yet when someone calls 911 to report the MVC at the corner of Walk and Don't Walk, they expect the short bus with all the funny lights to pull up and work some EMS magic in short order. And somehow, it keeps happening.

Here's the long and short of it. There is one, and exactly one, way to eliminate all volunteer EMS in the United States, and there's absolutely no way it's going to happen, at least not that I can see in my lifetime. "What way is that?", I hear someone in the far back of the room ask.

...wait for it...

...here it comes...

...elimination of volunteer EMS will require nationalization of all health-care services in the United States. That's the only way to pay for it. And there's no way the insurance industry will permit that to happen; they have too much at stake.

[bandaidpatrol]

Right. Money.

Less volunteers means more paid professionals. Which brings the need for more calls, which leads to someone getting the short end of the stick. Which leads to less money, that means pay cuts and lay offs.

It will never be perfect.

[Rezq304]

It's been said earlier in this thread that Volunteers do not deliver a quality of care that is equal to that of a Paid EMS provider

Can you honestly make the qualified statement that "non-paid EMS providers do not deliver as good a quality of care as a paid provider does?" If someone does only get 1 or 2 calls a week w/ a rural EMS agency, then sure, it's possible they may fall through the cracks. However...I'm from Virginia (yes, Virginia, for all you who'd wish us to move to Canada ), and firstly, our State Office of EMS (referred to as OEMS hereafter) is a heckuva watchdog, as far as state enforcement goes. They're very easy to work with, and genuinely give-a-crap about quality of training/care.

Our state also has the Virginia Association of Volunteer Rescue Squads (hereafter VAVRS), and the folks there go the extra mile, when it comes to offering extensive training programs, usually for free, that you'd otherwise have to pay outsourced instructors for.

Virginia is divided into (Non-Profit) Regional EMS Councils, who take the training one step further, offering MORE extensive assistance and guidance to our providers, in whichever region the provider "runs" in.

Many Virginia Community Colleges now have EMT-B and EMT-I as part of their course offerings. Some even have the NREMT-P program. There's no limit on how far a provider can go, only the limits they set upon themselves.

The BLS/ALS Pre-hospital coordinators for the Regional EMS councils also review the "calls" for each agency monthly, and offers advice guidance...then enforces change if necessary, in regard to an agency, and or individual provider.

Virginia, overall, does not suffer from a lack of qualified Emergency Medical Care, be it from Paid, or Non-Paid Providers. you will always have the one or two that just say "!@#$ IT", and go their own way, doing it however they want. Those types of people don't last long.

There are some folks out there who will debate the issue until it's dead...but as long as there are people who "GIVE A !@#$", and are willing to volunteer their time & energy, in every aspect of PreHospital Emergency Care, then in the end...the quality of EMS care provided by volunteers will never suffer.

I realize that demographics have alot to do with it, and what I've said may not necessarily hold true in all localities throughout the nation, but some of what has been said, against volunteer EMS, is just NOT TRUE as a whole, even though alot of comments made in the thread often group all volunteers together.

If anyone cares to take a look...here's a prime example of an ALL Volunteer EMS Agency that really has it's act together. They're located in central virginia, and serve a divided population...Urban & Rural...and when I say rural, I mean really rural.

Go here --> http://www.rescue1.org

OT.....great set up you have in Charlottesville. I'm from SWVA. Just took a Vehicle Rescue class from one of your guys up there. GREAT teacher...he really knows his stuff!

[Rescue0ne]

OT.....great set up you have in Charlottesville. I'm from SWVA. Just took a Vehicle Rescue class from one of your guys up there. GREAT teacher...he really knows his stuff!

Heck yes he does! Was it John Burruss maybe?

I need to qualify something though. I'm not a CARS member, I was a member of a squad in the county south of them. We were in the same EMS Council, same protocols, same OMD, same everything, just about. Visited them often, they just really impress me...and I'm not easily impressed.

Now, actually...I'm in Southwestern virginia, like yourself.

[Ridryder 911]

Just because you have paid professionals, will not mean you will develop more EMS calls .. You know I heard the same type of analogy when we were trying to get Level I Trauma Centers... if you have one, there will be more trauma ... what ? Just because you have an EMS to respond and provide care does not "create calls".. if your call volume goes go up, it is because the public recognizes the difference, and maybe actually trust the professinal service.

No, total volunteerism will never die.. thank goodness. But, they way it is now will. With the rash of wild land fires locally, requiring many volunteers to respond to 10 -12 fires a day lately, the drop of volunteer firefighters has increased remarkably... the reason, working 2 jobs is difficult, especially if you are only getting paid for one.

With the increase of EMS calls to be doubling or even tripling, the demand will be great for the local companies. As well as financial drain on most. It is not anyone fault or blame, just simple supply & demand. Running 12-20 calls per shift , every shift will cause a paradigm shift.

Again, it is not I believe they perform lower care, just the need to redefine their role.

Be safe,

R/R 911

[bandaidpatrol]

Just because you have paid professionals, will not mean you will develop more EMS calls ..

If you have more crews, there will be less calls to go around. Less calls per unit makes the big wigs think you don't need that extra rig. There goes three shifts worth of jobs.

[cosgrojo]

Okay, eight pages into this discussion, and a few people have touched on this, but nobody's come out and said it.

1) rural districts are still dirt-poor, so the concept of paying a full-time department is simply out of the question, because the tax base just isn't there to support it, and 2) some people in some places still consider it an honor to donate their time and efforts to community and civic service.

If there was no one to volunteer to do the job of EMS, even the rural townships would figure out a way to get paid personnel to do the job. Rid hit on something that is the absolute lynch-pin of the matter. Supply and demand. When the demand for a product or service is high, supply is soon to follow. No, I repeat, No county, city, or township would forfeit their denizens safety because there wasn't enough coins in the coffers. If there were NO volunteers at all anywhere to do EMS or fire calls, do you think the Government would stand idly by and let the country slip into safety oblivion? I don't think so. New rules, new regulations, and yes, new money would be developed and appropriated as needed. There would be federal money coming out the wazoo if there was a revolt. We are talking about a country that spends trillions of dollars on frivolous programs and experimental ideas that never come to pass. If something as important as total lack of public safety knocked on the front door, the government would race to answer it.

Also, no one is saying that EMT's in rural quarters of the nation have to be paid like MD's. Pay commiserate with economic and regional standards would be fine. I just don't believe that something as important as pre-hospital emergencies should be an un-compensated vocation. Not because volunteers aren't good at it, but because this field "deserves" to be paid. I agree that donating your time to the community is a fantastic, and worthwhile thing. But why not get paid for this particular service, and volunteer for something else? Go paint over some graffitti, mentor a fatherless child, go listen to some war stories at the local nursing home, pick up litter on the weekends, get involved with your local legislation. There are plenty of other excellent things you can be doing with your time that SHOULD be volunteer. EMS should not.