flamingemt2011 Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 Asysin, WHAT ETHICS ???????????????? No one has been willing to say how many errors their service has had, 99% of the services in here admitted that they will not report an error if it could get them sued, 99% of the respondents in this forum have stated they would not report an error to the patient under any circumstances, even when they killed the patient. Only a couple have outlined that their service has a PROCESS for dealing with errors, but they still never inform the patient. If we had ethics, errors (not identifying people by name) would be studied, statistics would be known by the whole department, and everyone would work together to eliminate errors. But when you bury and hide your errors, there is no opportunity to improve, so you keep repeating the error, and harming patients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERDoc Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 99% of the respondents in this forum have stated they would not report an error to the patient under any circumstances, even when they killed the patient. Uh, what good is telling the pt anything when they are dead? They are dead, they can't hear anything. Asysin, WHAT ETHICS ???????????????? No one has been willing to say how many errors their service has Part of the reason may be because if there is an error, it is none of the other employees business. That employee and pt have a right to privacy and their misadventures should not be shared with anyone else. I have no idea how many errors are made by others in my group because it is a privacy issue and is none of my business. It's not that someone is hiding something, it is private, confidential information. Maybe someone in a management position will know this info but your average field provider is not privy to it, nor should they be. Only a couple have outlined that their service has a PROCESS for dealing with errors, but they still never inform the patient. Is it possible that part of the process is for the provider NOT to disclose the error, but to have the error reported, properly investigated and then have a representative from the company disclose it in a proper setting? Part of the problem is that there is no incentive or protection to report them. There is all risk and no benefit. Any investigation that is done is open to subpeona during a trial. If there is no paper trail, there is nothing that can be used against you. From a self-presevatoin standpoint, why would you shoot yourself in the foot? Now, if these investigations could be kept confidential (much like the M&M we have in the hospital), I think you would see that things would change. LOL ... I am not afraid to admit i have been saved several times... *edit* I will say that those times are getting fewer and father between ... Did they save you because they were EMTs or because they were just an extra set of eyes who were able to watch from the outside? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceMedic Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Excellent point Doc, Your right it most likely was due to having the extra set of eyes. It just seems that it happens more, in my experience any way with EMTs than it does with other medics. Race Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFIB Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Excellent point Doc, Your right it most likely was due to having the extra set of eyes. It just seems that it happens more, in my experience any way with EMTs than it does with other medics. Race It's because of our inquisitive nature, probably just nosy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatelilpeepees Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 If you do not share the mistake, you cannot stop it. How many times has a medic given Atrovent instead of Proventil because of similar packaging that is hard to read ? I agree that errors need to go to a committee, and strategies should be implemented to make sure it does not happen again. I think he meant report to the family of the dead patient Doc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERDoc Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 I think he meant report to the family of the dead patient Doc Yeah, I know. It just sounded funny. It's because of our inquisitive nature, probably just nosy. It could also be your desire to prove a paragod wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFIB Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 If you do not share the mistake, you cannot stop it. How many times has a medic given Atrovent instead of Proventil because of similar packaging that is hard to read ? I agree that errors need to go to a committee, and strategies should be implemented to make sure it does not happen again. I think he meant report to the family of the dead patient Doc I don't have a clue, but aren't we all supposed to check the five "rights" before giving a medication. It seems to me that this is a error that is a symptom of a grater mal. Medics that don't pay attention to their protocols or training. That just sounds like sloppy work. I think If I were in charge I would have to levy some sort of discipline. Yeah, I know. It just sounded funny. It could also be your desire to prove a paragod wrong. If ambition were not lofty it wouldn't really de ambition, right. EMT shoot for the stars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceMedic Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 If you do not share the mistake, you cannot stop it. How many times has a medic given Atrovent instead of Proventil because of similar packaging that is hard to read ? I agree that errors need to go to a committee, and strategies should be implemented to make sure it does not happen again. I think he meant report to the family of the dead patient Doc Thats the thing, we are not nor has any one said to hide the fact that a mistake was made. Believe me there are NO SECRETS in a wrongful death lawsuit. Everything will come out and (higher power of choice) help you if you did not document well. And again Flaming, Unless you are in administration you WILL NOT know the number of mistakes made by your service. At least that is the way it is with most EMS departments. Apparently your service does not mind sharing those details, Must have an outstanding lawyer. I am in the hierarchy of one of my services i work for and i do know these numbers. I was also told by my services lawyer ( yes i did consult him prior to posting this ) that "this information is for departmental use only and is not to be disseminated to the public in any form or manner. Individuals directly impacted are notified on an as needed basis following a full medical and procedural investigation to determine what took place. If in fact it was a mistake or negligence, and to what extent it had in the ultimate outcome of the PT's condition. This is ultimately a privacy issue and will be continued to be treated as such." This could be a common reason why people are not reporting the numbers you asked for. Race Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asysin2leads Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Flaming, ethics are what you do when no one is looking. Its doing what in your heart you know is right. Its not saying the pleasantries your company tells you to say. Its not hiding behind the official company stance that the sleazy greaseball lawyers your company hires tell you to say. Ethics are the most important cornerstone of quality medical care. Modern ethical standards were established after some very nasty people did some very nasty things in the name of medical science 65-70 years ago. I missed the posts where other people concurred with your blase and corporate attitude towards only reporting errors when your lawyers can't get away with it. I have seen an intelligent discussion between providers about the manner and methods of reporting medical errors, but you are the only one I have seen who seems to view human life as a business and approaching the deaths of people's family members from a quality control standpoint. Again, your attitude is exactly what goes wrong with healthcare being put in the hands of entrepreneurial businessmen with little regulation. It becomes all about what you can get away with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingemt2011 Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 (edited) HURRRRK BLS BEFERR ALS AND THAR WASIS ONE TIME I WAS ONNA JOB AND THE GUY HAD THIS BLEED AND THE MEDIC WANTED TA START THE IV AND I WAS LIKE NOSIREEE YUZ GONNA TURN HIS BLOOD INTA KOOLAID SO I WAS LIKE LOOK AT THAT PARAGOD EMTS SAVE PARAMEDICS YEEEEEEEHAA!!!! And such. I knew u were drunk when you posted this last night, today you must be smoking something. How is that you think i am trying to protect corporations ????????? I am the one saying that you (the corporate medicine machine) should not be able to get away with killing patients, And you can not have a lawsuit if you bury all the information from the patient, they have no way of knowing, when you and the ER Doctor tell them it must have been a sudden heart attack that killed them, not the medication error. Edited October 30, 2011 by flamingemt2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts