Violent Patients

[Bieber]

Thanks for sharing, NYCEMS. It's easy to share our successes but a lot harder to share our mistakes. So thanks for sharing your experience so we can all learn from it.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Abosultely right. Its well in the pass; I can't change that. We never hit him just held him but no excuse. However, maybe our intentions were good but not waiting for PD was a mistake, it only took then 10 minutes. I can't assume but maybe something bad was going to happen. I don't know; him banging on cars, screaming, lunging at people wasn't illegal (I don't think). I can't justify it. I can only relay the story. I never said I was right. It was a decision we made at the time. It was a long time ago; would I do this now; NO.... Unless it was to defend myself. But we see so many times; where people say, "Why didn't anyone do anything?" Maybe that wasn't the time; not yet. It hadn't developed...

I can go on and on but I am wrong. I got no thrill out of it. I wanted to help him and others from being hurt by him. I didn't have to share it; I'm not proud of it but I wanted to share it; so others can see all sides. Thanks. All the best...

NYC this is a very good case for the newb's in this group to take heed of.

There are people who we see out there who we think, something's not quite right. Then there are those who we see who are REALLY nuts or in need of help.

Do we jump in and initiate contact with those patients if we haven't been called or do we wait until someone other than us call in.

Did this guy need immediate EMS care? I don't know I wasn't there. I suspect that immediate intervention was not warranted but the traffic and him in it might necessitate intervention.

Do we initiate contact on every person like this we see? I would say no. These people probably were doing this long before they were seen by the ambulance and no-one called on them and they did fine out there. Jumping in on this situation was a judgement call and that judgement NYC we cannot chastise you for.

This example for the newbs on this forum is that NYC put himself out there for critique and he took some good natured criticism as to his jumpin in and doing something.

Kudos for your honesty and having the thick skin to take the criticism.

[NYCEMS9115]

Thank you. Its not something I'm proud of nor do I bragg about it. It was relevant so I wanted to share... All the best....

[DwayneEMTP]

I was just sharing. There's nothing I can say to defend it. Your right... I shared an experience. It was something that had to be done. I could have continued to follow until PD came. Hindsight is 20/20. Thank you DwayneEMTP.... All the best...

No worries brother. It wasn't my intention to invalidate your opinion or your experience, only to help you/me/us stay focused on the primary goal here, which is education and bringing EMS forward with intelligence and professionalism. Perhaps you can do what you've mentioned, but if it's left there without a counter opinion then many here that are new, that have been fed all of the hero bullshit and can't wait to save the world might want to follow that example.

It's my belief that you wouldn't be happy if someone left your post with the opinion that throwing violent people to the ground and holding them for law enforcement was what you believed to be the correct, prudent and responsible thing for a provider to do. See? It wasn't my intention to burn you down but to be part of the team in creating a larger more productive picture. Of course most times I'm completely off in the ditch when I try to do such things, but it seems to be my nature.

Thanks for participating. We all learn together. Should you ever choose not to correct a post of mine that you believe is in error, or maybe correct but stated in such a way as to leave those newer to the profession with the wrong impression, well, I won't thank you for standing quietly while I step on my dick.

Agreement in education can be a terrible waste of time in my opinion. You will find that the weakest, least productive, most boring threads on the City occur when people agree.

Thanks to all for your comments and taking the time out of your day to share with us.

Dwayne

...would I do this now; NO.... Unless it was to defend myself. But we see so many times; where people say, "Why didn't anyone do anything?" Maybe that wasn't the time; not yet. It hadn't developed...

Yeah man, it's a weird world we live in, right? Share this story here and you're an asshole, do the same thing when out of uniform and you're at best a limelight hero, at worst a good neighbor and responsible citizen....

It's hard to know where to draw the lines sometimes. So again, I hope you see the points above ,that I wasn't really judging you but your decision to use it as a teaching point when it was in contrast to the original paragraph of your post.

And...for the record, even if I WAS questioning you, your ideas, your manhood and the sexual chastity of your mother...tell me to go and fuck myself. Not here, nor in real life, is there one single thing about me that is special, that makes me or my opinions better or more valid than another. I simply have 'another' opinion that I sometimes express a little more...straight forward..than some others. It might be louder, but it is certainly no better and in most cases proved to be either wholly, or at least partially wrong.

You were contrary in your post in my opinion. If you give it a few minutes thought I'm willing to bet that you can find plenty of things in every one of my posts that could be cleared up or explained differently for the benefit of the board.

Have a great day all...

Dwayne

[tniuqs]

Thanks for participating. We all learn together. Should you ever choose not to correct a post of mine that you believe is in error, or maybe correct but stated in such a way as to leave those newer to the profession with the wrong impression, well, I won't thank you for standing quietly while I step on my dick.

Dwayne

Oh Oh can I have a piece of that before Happiness sees it ? You can't step on your dick

[HERBIE1]

I see no problem with what NYC did taking down the patient. His choice was to ignore this guy and see him or someone else possibly get hurt, or intervene. If you have the training, why not, if there is a better than average chance you are not in danger. Would this be a move for all- or even most folks? No. If he did not intervene, I see no problem either. It's a judgment call.

Kudos to NYC for a job well done.

[NYCEMS9115]

DwayneEMTP you're right. What I was explaining before I posted my event; was what you should do. I threw in my experience to throw it out there because it was relevant. I was young and I think differently now. All of us do. What I did over a decade ago was me but not me now... My post was a tad confusing but I do stand by it; I have to, I did it. My intentions were at the right place. I'm not a violent person. I felt my partner & I did what was right at the time. I look back at it and I could have done things different. I'm older, more educated, & more experienced. However, I think we stopped something that could have been something really bad. I have no regrets but its not something I talk about. In fact this is the second time I've mentioned this. My wife heard it that same night... Thanks....

[Richard B the EMT]

Here in NYC, we have somewhat of an advantage, that NYPD will back up, and quickly do so, when EMS requests them for a suspected EDP, or Altered Mental Status assignment. I hope, no matter where in the world, where the LEOs have to fly in by plane to back up local EMS, that the local EMS has some protocol established for handling violent, or potentially violent, patients, that doesn't violate any patient's rights, or risk the health and well being of the EMSers, either.

Oh, an update, the Social Worker who was stabbed by her client that I previously mentioned was in the New York State city of White Plains, not somewhere in New Jersey, as I erroniously had reported.

[NYCEMS9115]

Thank you HERBIE1 for the kind words....

[HERBIE1]

Thank you HERBIE1 for the kind words....

My pleasure. I get the idea of trying to flesh our possible alternatives in this forum, but it is exceedingly difficult to place yourself in that moment, in someone else's shoes, in a particular situation.

So many variables- time of day, number of bystanders, traffic, weather, age, health, size of providers and partners, etc, that a blanket solution is impossible.

Have I seen crazy folks wandering the streets? Of course, and depending on the location in our city, "crazy" is actually the norm. Sometimes you intervene, sometimes you simply call for police and give them the information, and sometimes you just shake your head. All depends on the situation.