Driving While Intoxicated - Alcoholism

[Just Plain Ruff]

In Florida, we have systems installed in your car when you get gigged for drunk driving as a repeat offender. You have to do the breathalyzer and pass or your car will not start.

Yes, there are ways around it such as drive someone else's car or have someone else blow to get your car started but in reality, neither of those circumstances are common. The habitual drunk driver is usually solo and uses one car, his car.

Why not have the court take away his car. Make it a clear and present danger type thing and prohibit him from owning a car. If he's caught driving then the car is seized and sold and the money given to the crime victims fund.

There is no consitutional (federal or state) right to own a car? They just have to provide due process before they take his car away and that due process is the court.

He's been found to be a habitual repeat offender and therefore he loses his ability to own a car. Have the probation officers do a spot check on him every week to verify that there are no cars that he owns or has the ability to drive.

make it an offense for someone to loan him their car.

If he is found to be driving then he gets 5 years or whatever the sentence he was convicted on but put on probation for (sounds like he has been on probation before). If he is on probation for the next 3 years then he goes to prison no if's ands or buts.

I think that might work.

[akflightmedic]

Why not have the court take away his car. Make it a clear and present danger type thing and prohibit him from owning a car. If he's caught driving then the car is seized and sold and the money given to the crime victims fund.

There is no consitutional (federal or state) right to own a car? They just have to provide due process before they take his car away and that due process is the court.

He's been found to be a habitual repeat offender and therefore he loses his ability to own a car. Have the probation officers do a spot check on him every week to verify that there are no cars that he owns or has the ability to drive.

make it an offense for someone to loan him their car.

If he is found to be driving then he gets 5 years or whatever the sentence he was convicted on but put on probation for (sounds like he has been on probation before). If he is on probation for the next 3 years then he goes to prison no if's ands or buts.

I think that might work.

It is a slippery slope when you start banning one's right to own property, even if they abuse it. Plus, you need a car to work. Take it away and you now put him more dependent on society since he can no longer work..not to mention you put more burden on the offender's family, if he has one.

You can not say Oh well, those are the consequences as the family did not choose his behavior and unless you are willing to pay for him. Your solution is violation of personal rights and further burdens the system.

[Just Plain Ruff]

It is a slippery slope when you start banning one's right to own property, even if they abuse it. Plus, you need a car to work. Take it away and you now put him more dependent on society since he can no longer work..not to mention you put more burden on the offender's family, if he has one.

You can not say Oh well, those are the consequences as the family did not choose his behavior and unless you are willing to pay for him. Your solution is violation of personal rights and further burdens the system.

Ok, take out the family part.

I am not banning his right to own property. I'm taking away his weapon of choice. (you will probably not agree with my choice of words here though)

I don't think that it's a violation of personal rights. No where does it say that he has the right to own a car does it? I know a number of guys who don't own a car and they get to work every single day on either their bikes or by public transportation. I don't buy your argument that taking away his car takes away is ability to work. There are thousands of people in big cities who don't own cars and get to work just fine.

If he has been shown which he has been shown to be a habitual offender then don't the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one (Spock)

[akflightmedic]

Ok, take out the family part.

I am not banning his right to own property. I'm taking away his weapon of choice. (you will probably not agree with my choice of words here though)

I don't think that it's a violation of personal rights. No where does it say that he has the right to own a car does it? I know a number of guys who don't own a car and they get to work every single day on either their bikes or by public transportation. I don't buy your argument that taking away his car takes away is ability to work. There are thousands of people in big cities who don't own cars and get to work just fine.

If he has been shown which he has been shown to be a habitual offender then don't the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one (Spock)

So what about the repeat sex offender who committed all his crimes within his house? Do we take away his house, his weapon of discretion? I mean after all, I know lots of guys who live on the streets and in the woods...and they do just fine.

[Just Plain Ruff]

I see your point. No winning against your logic.

But seriously, the courts won't do it anyway.

It's easier to take away the car.

But look at it from another direction. Let's take away his house. Put him in prison and you effectively take his house away.

Plus we aren't taking away his car without due process. His due process right is fulfilled because he went through the courts, but yes you can take away his house based on due process.

I know if offends the senses when we start taking away things from people but many people would argue that if you can save one person from this drunk by taking his car away then why not do that. Now I know that he may never kill anyone but the danger is there. Many will agree with what I argue, but I know you won't agree with me on this.

I think that the breathalyzer is a very good substitute. Can't drive the car without breathing in the tube but that fails sometimes because the drunk may have a sober person breath into the tube.

How bout this

Make him wear an ankle bracelet that has an alcohol senser that reads the alcohol level from the skin. I think they can do that. Now have a senser in the ignition of the car that if the ankle bracelet senses alcohol that it sends a signal out to the ignition one to not start the car. Would that be an acceptable alternative?

[FireMedic65]

So what about the repeat sex offender who committed all his crimes within his house? Do we take away his house, his weapon of discretion? I mean after all, I know lots of guys who live on the streets and in the woods...and they do just fine.

Take away his penis.

[tniuqs]

There was a call in my area today, for someone who had hit the ditch in their truck. No injuries, but the patient was very intoxicated. This person is a known alcoholic, and has had numerous accidents and license suspensions in the past.

This person also knows how to work the legal system, in that he continued to drink on scene after a bystander called in the accident, which, according to the laws here, gets him out of an impaired driving causing an accident charge, as there is no way for the court to determine how drunk he was when the accident occurred. He will be charged with other offenses, but nothing that will get his license taken away.

<snip for brevity>

Thoughts?

I have 2 sepatate thoughts .. but first when is alcoholism a disease process like epilepsy or the like ... its is a personal choice to drink then drive impaired.

1- WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOUR RCMP if this guy is a repeat offender.

Its their job to take this threat off the street PERIOD, if this guy does kill a family off going to church its just a bit too late isn't it ? Then the RCMP should be held accountable

2- This ass**** needs lead injection directly into his engine block ... No wheels = No driving.

ps I may or may not have a few spare rounds and a perfect excuse for a road trip to visit

Quoting AK:

It is a slippery slope when you start banning one's right to own property, even if they abuse it. Plus, you need a car to work. Take it away and you now put him more dependent on society since he can no longer work..not to mention you put more burden on the offender's family, if he has one.

FACT: AK in AB they can take away your Operators Licence for not paying child support ... oh don't get me going on that "brilliant" idea either.

cheers

[FireMedic65]

I have 2 sepatate thoughts .. but first when is alcoholism a disease process like epilepsy or the like ... its is a personal choice to drink then drive impaired.

1- WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOUR RCMP if this guy is a repeat offender.

Its their job to take this threat off the street PERIOD, if this guy does kill a family off going to church its just a bit too late isn't it ? Then the RCMP should be held accountable This has happened here. The drunk driver waffled a car with a mom and her two kids inside. They were all badly injured and the drunk was stumbling around unhurt. The cops TOOK HIM HOME!!! That of course caused quite an outrage. That cop is no longer employed here.

2- This ass**** needs lead injection directly into his engine block ... No wheels = No driving.

ps I may or may not have a few spare rounds and a perfect excuse for a road trip to visit

FACT: AK in AB they can take away your Operators Licence for not paying child support ... oh don't get me going on that "brilliant" idea either. Taking away a person's license doesn't stop them from actually driving. Drunk drivers are usually too arrogant to care and drive anyway. So, more drastic measures should be taken. Impound the car.

cheers

[uglyEMT]

A few things. With the ankle braclet idea. They do have it, just ask Lohan. Its what got her thrown in prison. As far as a slight hicup with it. What if a sober person is driving the car? I would say have the on/off under the driver seat with a short distance setting. If his in the seat it wont start. Oh what about someone else starting it then getting out and letting him drive... have a kill switch on it. They way things like Onstart stop the car. If its been started and he enters the driver seat area, bzzzt car dies. might be a good thing.

The breathilizer ignition system works well too. Very hard to beat it, its not as easy as The 40 Year Old Virigin makes it out to be. Can it be done, yes it has been but the numbers show it works.

Taking his priviliges away, does nothing. He will still drink and he will still drive until he gets caught then the process starts all over again.

What this man needs is a couple of things. First he needs to be arrested. Not just picked up and make bail but actually locked up for a few days to think. Then he needs a good judge, firm but reasonable. Sentence should be 3 to 5 years suspended sentence with madatory rehab (6 weeks minimum) with counciling. Then after those docs feel he is good release him on probation for 3 years maybe 5 if necessary. While on probation mandatory AA meetings miss one then its a violation the guy goes in a does time. The ankle bracelet thingy for 2 years. After all this if he relapses or does pull a DUI then I would say a nice long jail sentence.

Am I being too nice to this guy, not really. His disease is winning right now. If he getts the proper treatment and does the AA thing he will possibly break the cycle. the key is the meetings after rehab. Anyone can stay clean 6 weeks but if you come home to the same conditions that led to you needing rehab your doomed to repeat. The harshest crtics are the recovering alcholics at the meetings. They have heard it all, done it all and seen it all so excuses dont work. They can spot someone who even took a sip from about 1 mile away and wont let you forget about it. Its a tough gig to go through. BUT they are some of the nicest people when you need help and ask for it. From talking to you at 2am crying in a bathtub all the way to sitting with you on your porch sipping lemonade because you just want to talk. They will keep you honest and will help you get through it year after year.

How do I gleam this insight? i have been there. I went to the bottom and stood in hell and fought my way back to the light. I went through the shame of a DUI, the family turmoil it caused. I looked at the pain I caused everyday. I got the help, I stuck to it, I still do. It may be a disease but its one with a cure if you are strong enough to want it.

Edited July 29, 2010 by UGLyEMT

[emtannie]

I have 2 sepatate thoughts .. but first when is alcoholism a disease process like epilepsy or the like ... its is a personal choice to drink then drive impaired.

1- WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOUR RCMP if this guy is a repeat offender.

Its their job to take this threat off the street PERIOD, if this guy does kill a family off going to church its just a bit too late isn't it ? Then the RCMP should be held accountable

2- This ass**** needs lead injection directly into his engine block ... No wheels = No driving.

ps I may or may not have a few spare rounds and a perfect excuse for a road trip to visit

FACT: AK in AB they can take away your Operators Licence for not paying child support ... oh don't get me going on that "brilliant" idea either.

cheers

I am not sure if I agree with the alcoholism as a disease, although there are studies both for and against that theory. A good article on the pros and cons is: http://www.physiciansnews.com/commentary/298wp.html

I will side with the RCMP on this one... they stop him, arrest him, charge him, and it is the judge who gives him a decreased sentence or tosses the charges on a technicality (last time the judge tossed the case because he said that the legal seal on a document wasn't clear enough). It isn't the RCMP who are the major issue - it is the court system. We have issues with being so remote, and a small detachment can't have staff everywhere, so it does take time to get to a scene.

Since our legal system isn't doing enough to keep this guy off the streets, I just wanted to know what people thought of using the "alcoholism is a disease" rationale to refuse him a drivers license. Could that be a viable option? Yes, odds are he would still drive, but wouldn't that give the police more leeway if he does drive again? Would using the disease rationale get more drunk drivers off the street than our courts do?

Although I like the lead injection idea, you may need a big clip - this guy is a farmer, so you would have to shoot the trucks, tractors, combine, quad, .....