paramedicmike Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 It's not really an issue of being poorly vetted. Caldera just made a series of poor decisions that resulted in a lot of people being unnecessarily scared out of their gourd. I guess if you're going to go, go big. With regards to Obama surrounding himself with "dumbasses" like Caldera, keep in mind that Caldera's primary role was logistics and not advisory. His wasn't a cabinet level post. This isn't a matter of advising the President on matters of national or international policy. The Military Office provides military support to the White House and not military advising on matters of national security. That being said, I don't think you can realistically blame Obama for this event. Sure, sure. He's the President. The buck stops with him. He could've handled the *aftermath* better. But unless you want another Jimmy Carter who micromanages everything, you can't blame Obama for the actions of others especially when it was done without the President's knowledge. People will do stupid things. It happens. Lastly, I wasn't attempting to defend Obama or Caldera with regards to this incident. Nor was there any attempt to pwn! anyone. My political views are neither important to this conversation nor will they be shared here. My posting was more an attempt to point out demonstrated inability to formulate an original thought and the folly of blind acceptance of blatantly wrong information as true. I realize it's easier to let others think for you. But really, it just causes bigger problems down the road. -be safe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfmanHarris Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Could someone please enlighten me on a question I have with the American political system? I don't get why you demonize your opponents so readily? This goes both left and right (relatively speaking given that both the DNC and GOP are right of centre). Dem's were super quick to demonize G.W. Bush as the worst leader this side of Hitler and now Republicans are ready to declare Obama as the worst leader this side of Stalin. Anyone got any insight into what causes this? Seems awfully divisive to me. I don't like our current Prime Minister ideologically and disagree wholeheartedly on many policy decisions, but not all. I'd rather see someone else in office, but I don't think Harper is bringing about end times, nor do I think Layton or the Greens would bring about a utopia. They're friggin politicians in a populist system, the best we can hope for are shades of beige that we kinda prefer over others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireMedic65 Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 (edited) Everyone has an opinion and feels they must force everyone to know about it. They don't like how things are being done or handled, so they armchair quarterback how they would change the world single handed. Everyone (or close to it) is so quick to jump up and down waving their arms to point out peoples fault the moment it happens so everyone can see, but they fail to point out all the good things they have done. In my personal opinion.. if you don't like how things are done, you are welcome to leave the country. Edited May 10, 2009 by FireMedic65 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkytomtom Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Paramedic mike has some good points. I can't believe that you're all getting up in arms over incompetent henchman NOW! And this dude wasn't even a cabinet level advisor. "Your doing a heckuva job brownie!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustdevil Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 (edited) Paramedic mike has some good points. I can't believe that you're all getting up in arms over incompetent henchman NOW! And this dude wasn't even a cabinet level advisor. "Your doing a heckuva job brownie!" The significant difference is that, when Republicans find a bad apple in the barrell, they escort his arse out. When Dems find one, they circle the wagons to defend him and call for everyone to "move on". Did any of the Republican tax cheats who were nominated for Bush cabinet positions get confirmed? No. They never even got that far because Republicans have the integrity to police their own. Conversely, Democrats adhere to the theory that they are morally superior to the citizenry, so they should not be held accountable to the same standard. Osama never would have sacked Caldera. Caldera simply had the integrity to do the right thing, even if he was an idiot. To date, he is the first Osama administration official to demonstrate any such integrity. And he'll probably be the last. Edited May 10, 2009 by Dustdevil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERBIE1 Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 I would bet a large sum of cash that plane was full of Democratic bigshots. This is the equivalent of staying in the Lincoln Bedroom- a perk for being a party loyalist. Donors, lobbyists, political cronies- who knows. I simply refuse to believe that plane was empty. Stupid- damn right. It costs a fortune for that plane just to spool up it's engines and to fly over NYC, with a fighter escort? Incredibly stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scubanurse Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 do we really need a bashing thread about politics?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERBIE1 Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 do we really need a bashing thread about politics?? But it's so fun!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paramedicmike Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 (edited) Well, let's be fair. Both Republicans and Democrats have plenty of examples of people who prove to be an embarrassment to themselves and their party. There are tax evaders, pedophiles, criminals, cheats, liars and worse in both parties. Each party also handles issues the same way. Some are a little more public than others. Both sides "circle the wagons" and try to keep things quiet. Both sides run people out on a rail when it does go public. Both sides consider themselves untouchable. Generalizations about one side or another can be shot down with plenty of examples of poor behaviour from either side. -be safe Edited May 10, 2009 by paramedicmike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B the EMT Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Perceived by me as fact: 1) This was bungled, as it would have been a lot less expensive to do the photo shop treatment. 2) Who's bungled idea was it, to not advise local mayors, like NYC Mayor Mike Bloomberg, and local area (in numerous local jurisdictions in 2 states!) LEO officials? 3) In an area where 2 jet aircraft struck, and ended up destroying, 2 skyscrapers, who's brain wasn't turned on to think, "Hey, the locals might see an aircraft being chased by a fighter jet, and believe that another air attack was in progress"? 4) I live near an airport. I cannot see the colors on most jets flying over my house. I see an aircraft, but might not see the big words on the side saying United States Of America, because of viewing angle, the aircraft's elevation, or it's speed. Were I in lower Manhattan, bum legs and all, I'd be moving real quick to some kind of "safety", too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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