Lights and sirens

[JPINFV]

1) Despite my longevity here on the EMT City site, I still need my memory jogged every now and again. I'd forgotten the initials SJA.

2) The quote from Mr. T, in "Rocky 3" is

SJA=Saint John's Ambulance.

[Brady]

In our company we use them to a call no matter what, we don't know if it is an emergency until we get there. A lot of times the info can be skewed by the callers or the dispatch. We use lights with a pt in the back but the siren we keep silent unless needed. It usually causes more confusion and chaos. I have turned the lights off though in the city (with a non emergent pt in the back) so that people aren't dumb and try to pull into others lanes to let us go through.

[robert gift]

In our company we use them to a call no matter what, we don't know if it is an emergency until we get there. A lot of times the info can be skewed by the callers or the dispatch. We use lights with a pt in the back but the siren we keep silent unless needed. It usually causes more confusion and chaos. I have turned the lights off though in the city (with a non emergent pt in the back) so that people aren't dumb and try to pull into others lanes to let us go through.

We ASK if lights and siren are needed.

Simple and straightforward.

If unsure, or emergent response may be needed, we send emergent to the scene. Siren as little as possible.

Crew then determines urgency of transport to ED.

If not emergent, NO lights. (Before daytime running lights, headlights on when a patient was on board.)

If emergent, lights and siren PRN - as little as possible, both to minimize pt anxiety and public annoyance and to aid in communication.

Edited April 13, 2009 by robert gift

[HarryM]

We use lights and sirens if the job comes through as Priority 1, and we only use them to get to the pt. It is extremely rare to use lights and sirens while transporting, unless the pt is in an extremely critical condition.

[JPINFV]

I have turned the lights off though in the city (with a non emergent pt in the back) so that people aren't dumb and try to pull into others lanes to let us go through.

How are people being dumb by doing exactly what they are told to do when confronted with an emergency vehicle with its emergency lights on? Also, why do you have your lights on for a non-emergent patient?

[Niftymedi911]

Unfortunately we according to SOP respond to all 80,000 calls/yr, lights and sirens. It's one of those areas where "We've always done it this way, why change?" But, times are changing. Our dispatch center just became Nationally Certified (NAEMD), they're also Nationally certified to use the Pro Q/A software with MPDS. We're starting to do pilot programs with certain areas within our county to send BLS trucks to BLS calls non-emergent. It's a month program which at the end of the program will guide the rest of the responses to the 9-1-1 system. Hopefully, by September of 2009 we will have a full complete response matrix of what to respond lights and sirens to and what not and what recourses need to be sent.

It's reinventing the wheel pretty much, but for a county as big (750,000 full time residents / 3 million seasonal respidents) and busy we are its a MIRACLE!!

Edited May 17, 2009 by Niftymedi911

[Dustdevil]

But, times are changing. Our dispatch center just became Nationally Certified (NAEMD), they're also Nationally certified to use the Pro Q/A software with MPDS. We're starting to do pilot programs with certain areas within our county to send BLS trucks to BLS calls non-emergent. It's a month program which at the end of the program will guide the rest of the responses to the 9-1-1 system. Hopefully, by September of 2009 we will have a full complete response matrix of what to respond lights and sirens to and what not and what recourses need to be sent.

Welcome to 1986, Lee County. We've been waiting for you.

Ya know, I try to be impressed with Lee County. I really do. I mean, I am always thrilled to see any government solution to EMS that doesn't involve firemonkeys, and I support them and pray for their success. But every time I hear anything about LCEMS, it just seems to be yet another example of their idiocy. After twenty years of being the de-facto standard of care, with everyone doing it because, well... everyone does it, it is finally becoming evident that both EMT and MPDS are expensive jokes that are not supported by any statistical or scientific evidence. So now that progressive agencies are beginning to bail on the concepts, Lee County finally decides this is a good time to jump aboard the burning bandwagon.

The sad thing is that I'm not even surprised.

Edited May 19, 2009 by Dustdevil

[FireMedic65]

There have been studies done, or so I have heard about when responding ambulances don't use their lights and sirens they make it to their destination in the same amount of time or even quicker. The problem is to me, that people see the lights coming up behind them, and just stop. That leaves a lot of potential for other incidents to occur. Given, that doesn't always happen, but for the most part, people act like morons trying to make room for the ambulance, or they just plain ole ignore it.

Second of all, in the state of PA, not sure about other states, the vehicle code says that when operating an emergency vehicle, when the lights are on (emergency rotating lights) there must be an audible warning device on as well. I will look for this in the vehicle code later when I have more time and will quote it.

[robert gift]

There have been studies done, or so I have heard about when responding ambulances don't use their lights and sirens they make it to their destination in the same amount of time or even quicker. The problem is to me, that people see the lights coming up behind them, and just stop. That leaves a lot of potential for other incidents to occur. Given, that doesn't always happen, but for the most part, people act like morons trying to make room for the ambulance, or they just plain ole ignore it.

Second of all, in the state of PA, not sure about other states, the vehicle code says that when operating an emergency vehicle, when the lights are on (emergency rotating lights) there must be an audible warning device on as well. I will look for this in the vehicle code later when I have more time and will quote it.

Don't believe the "studies".

Lights and siren allow MUCH time to be saved.

Requiring siren with lights is ridiculous.

Allow siren to be used at the discretion of the crew.

Siren may worry/annoy patients.

Siren may impede hearing BP, breath/bowel sounds, communication with pt, ED, base.

There are so many places where no siren is needed.

Also places where it is best not to sound siren to allow traffic ahead to clear.

Most of our runs were accomplished with litte siren to no siren at night.

Most people try to help the ambulance.

Because of better vehicle sound insulation, better stereo systems and air conditioning,

many drivers don't detect the siren until late.

[JPINFV]

What's even more ridiculous than requiring sirens with lights is requiring all transports to use the emergency lights.