akflightmedic Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I did see that and meant to acknowledge you, my apologies. This is not an attempt to further the debate, but I am truly baffled at how anyone thinks hitting is ok. I truly do not understand the line of reasoning, the logic behind such an action. I am at a loss as to what purpose it serves and I am at a loss as to how one may justify it. I spanked my oldest 2 kids only once in their life. My youngest has never been spanked. I do not think the older two remember it thankfully. They are now ages "almost 11" , 9 and 8. They do not require spankings, all is accomplished with communication and revocation of privileges. Maybe I am just oh so lucky to not have needed this barbaric method of child control. I felt such shame and remorse after hitting my kids, I vowed I could never bring myself to repeat such action. I have had much success without it anyways. Thankfully, I am one of the lucky ones you mentioned because strangers and friends alike compliment us on our children's behavior frequently. My children even problem solve amongst themselves. I am proud of this because it means I gave them the tools to deal with difficult interpersonal relationships. When they have arguments or fights amongst themselves, they are able to usually work it out without parental input. No we are not Little House on the Prairie, but spanking does not exist in my house nor does the threat of such. I hope when my kids become parents, they will not resort to spanking either. I do not think they will however, because it is such a foreign concept to them. I did not give them that tool or that fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crotchitymedic1986 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 In my opinion, if your employer states that if you do not improve, you will lose your job and health benefits, that is a "fear tactic" that is used after logic and reasoning have failed, like spanking. But this debate is much the same as abortion, you are never going to get the other side to come over to your side, so we should probably all just agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akflightmedic Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 So are you saying we should just threaten with a spanking then and never do it? I mean you just compared it to being a "fear tactic" so that must be what you are saying right? That is the only way these two could be similar. The loss of job and health benefits, while it may have physical ramifications later on possibly, it has no immediate physical contact coming from a "superior", therefore it is no comparison. As for the abortion comparison, while some may not "convert", there are others who are/were undecided and this thread has helped them immensely. All my "flighties" have pm'd me and asked for further information, so something must be going on, something positive and valuable. And then pride prevents the others who have converted (either way) from admitting so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneEMTP Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Sure it is evidence: Child throws a tantrum in the store: Hands on, either smacks their bottom right then, or takes them to the car or bathroom to administer discipline. Non-hands "single-mom" (that should offend someone --- lol), listens to the child scream and cry for 10 minutes, then finally gives in and gives the child what it wanted. Dont need any science to figure that one out. I wasn't disagreeing that this is evidence that this child is being raised poorly, but that you seem to extrapolate that to also mean the the quiet children are quite because their parents have spanked them. One doesn't really supply evidence to the other. See what I mean? ...Its called progressive disipline, you get an oral warning, a written warning, a suspension, and then terminated. It is still a spanking. And if that is your Primary form of motivation it is destined to fail. As part of an intelligent behavoral/motivational plan? Works ok, as does very minor corporal punishment. As a primary means of motivation, major fail. And yes, I can prove it. ;-) Dwayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crotchitymedic1986 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 No, I am admitting your point that spanking does induce fear, and is used to modify behavior, much the same as threatening to take away the playstation. Clear guidelines are drawn, "x" behavior produces "y" result. The two are no different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneEMTP Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Spenac, I know we keep ignoring your "Fair, consistent discipline is the answer" responses, as they are obviously logical and not nearly radical enough to attack. ;-) I do agree with you, as far as it goes, it's the system that ensures the fairness and consistency that is at issue. No one can be consitent 'by feel' or simply by trying. Consistency requires a logical, trackable plan to prevent you from simply 'feeling' fair and consistent. A system without a benchmark is doomed to fail. But I love the spirit of your posts. Dwayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akflightmedic Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 No, I am admitting your point that spanking does induce fear, and is used to modify behavior, much the same as threatening to take away the playstation. Clear guidelines are drawn, "x" behavior produces "y" result. The two are no different. No different than one produces bodily harm and mental fear and the other is an external loss which will not affect them physically. Yep, sound the same to me. Absolutely no difference in getting a beating versus losing a game console for x amount of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTXMEDIC Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Of course a 'verbal warning' that their behavior will not be tolerated should be first. an instant uppercut should not be the first option. as for comparing a termination notice to a spanking. next time the kid screws up ill write him up for it... :roll: I dont think telling a kid that if he continues to kick and scream in the store, some day 50 years down the road, he will lose his health benefits if he continues this behavior is going to be remembered. 'spanking' not 'beating' lets the kid know that there are consequences for his actions. when you get home and take his toys away you have to remind him of why it is youre doing it. more than likely he wont even remember what happened. a swat on the butt is immediate and re-enforces that you mean what you say. theres no confusion because it happens at the time of infraction. my kids dont live in a constant state of fear or lose bowel control when i get home from work. they know i love em and to come to me with problems. they also know where the line is drawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akflightmedic Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Of course a 'verbal warning' that their behavior will not be tolerated should be first. an instant uppercut should not be the first option. as for comparing a termination notice to a spanking. next time the kid screws up ill write him up for it... :roll: I dont think telling a kid that if he continues to kick and scream in the store, some day 50 years down the road, he will lose his health benefits if he continues this behavior is going to be remembered. I think you misunderstood, that was not what was said at all. Reread and try again. 'spanking' not 'beating' lets the kid know that there are consequences for his actions. when you get home and take his toys away you have to remind him of why it is youre doing it. more than likely he wont even remember what happened. Not much difference between a spanking and a beating. If it is a controlled "swat", how effective is that? A spanking is to inflict pain, a beating is to inflict pain. With all these swattings, how many times have you found yourself having to repeat them? Hmm, guess they may not be all that effective after all. a swat on the butt is immediate and re-enforces that you mean what you say. theres no confusion because it happens at the time of infraction. my kids dont live in a constant state of fear or lose bowel control when i get home from work. they know i love em and to come to me with problems. they also know where the line is drawn. Leaving the store immediately, stopping whatever activity you are doing at that moment, removing from the current environment...ALL of those are immediate and reinforce what it is you are trying to say. There is NO confusion because it is immediate. You should see the shock on their faces when I have turned around and went home after pulling in the parking lot of Chuck E Cheese or the movies. They assumed since we made it that far, that they were golden. The behavior continued, home we went. Cost was my gas and time, results were priceless. Even if they do not "remember" what the infraction is when you get home, is it too much effort to remind them? Sounds like parenting issues more than kid behavior issues. In actuality, they will remember because we will have discussed it on the way home. When we get home and they lose the privilege, then they know I meant business. It really makes them think and has been most effective as removal of something from them is more concrete than a "swat". And although you say they do not live in fear of you, I have no reason to doubt that, think of yourself. How awesome would it be to know you never needed to physically hit your children. If you knew you could reason with them, modify their behaviors through positive means as opposed to negative physical ones. That kind of life leaves a lot of extra time for us to enjoy each other, to bond and to be happy. Why waste your precious time hitting? I know the answer for some, hitting is quick. It is much easier to hit a kid and "be done with the situation" than take the time to behave like an adult, inconvenience yourself and talk to the kids and reinforce their behavior in a positive way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spenac Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 But AK the swat or spanking is not the end. If being used they need an explanation of why they are being spanked. Also they may also have other consequences. I do think it is unfair for you to liken a parent that spanks to being a bully. I think no matter how anyone argues the key is a consistent way of discipline. It requires the parent to live up to what they say. Spanking is not a swift over and done. It allows a situation to be addressed. The example Crotch gave, a quick swat stops the tantrum. We can then finish getting the other items the family needs w/o punishing the entire family. Then we get home and you discuss with the child why their actions were unacceptable and determine what additional restrictions they deserve for their behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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