Save 1-2 million patients in 2009 ??

[spenac]

Wow Crotch multiple final comments who woulda thunk it? :roll:

And again you try to leave no option but agree with you or agree we are lazy idiots. Your options are wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your conclusions are wrong. Get over it. At least your previous final comment left it basically we agree to disagree which was a much more intelligent way to leave when you have been proven wrong multiple times in this discussion that should have been locked on page 1.

[akflightmedic]

OK, final comment: Pick any other policy you dont like at your work. Do you enjoy backing a truck in the rain ? No. Have you ever backed into something, probably not. But you have a policy to protect the truck and other people's property, even though you may have the most expert drivers in the world, who have had EVOC, and may not have even had a backing accident in the last year.

This policy is the same. Maybe you have only one idiot or lazy medic who would try to talk someone out of going to that distant hospital at 3am in your service.

There is no harm done unless you are that lazy medic who has spent 20 minutes talking the patient out of going, and then you hand the phone to your patient, and they tell the supervisor "No, I am not refusing, they told me I dont need to go".

The flip side is if it is a true refusal, then you have more evidence that you tried to get them to go, and they did infact refuse.

This is simply looking at something that does exist in EMS (like in DC), that is problem prone if not handled correctly. You will rarely get sued by the patients you transport. It is the ones that you do not transport that will get you in trouble.

The only reason to be upset by this policy is:

a. You are offended by having a supervisor involved in your call.

b. You are mad because in this scenario, you will have to transport more patients than you did in the past.

If you are doing your job as you should, and your patient is truly refusing, then this is just another layer of protection for you.

Have to disagree, because again you paint this argument with broad strokes from your obviously very limited experience in EMS outside of whatever small system you worked for.

1. I could care less about supervisors being involved. I worked for an all ALS system (double medic) and one of us was a LT or an out of rank LT, so in effect there was a "supervisor" on every call. Both crew members signed the refusal in addition to any present family members or law enforcement if on scene.

2. I could care less about running more or less calls as I was paid to be on duty 24 hours at a time. Sure sleep is nice, but I do not complain about doing what I signed on for. I remind anyone who does complain that they were fully aware of all the job entailed prior to getting hired, so why are you here if you do not like it.

In addition, I prefer to transport patients as refusals involved more work than the actual call. I could have them at the ER, truck in service and report finished in faster time than sitting on scene talking them out of it, still obtaining vitals (as all refusals required it), and then writing a complete report in addition to the refusal as that was required as well. If you think a simple phone call to a supervisor is going to change or prevent any of that, I say malarkey!

What busy system has the time or ability to have a supervisor constantly receiving phone calls? It would require another FT position simply to answer the phones. Actually it would take 4 positions to cover a 24/48 coverage, but no one is going to stand by the phone for 24 hours a day, so it would have to be 12 hour phone coverages. Wait a minute...EUREKA!!!

Who else has 24 hour a day phone and radio communication and works closely with EMS? DISPATCH does...Dispatch also has supervisors. Hmm, what if we called dispatch and put them on the phone to confirm it? Some dispatchers are medically trained..even if they aren't, all they really are doing is witnessing the patient saying "I do not wish to go to the hospital", which is exactly what a supervisor would be doing. By doing it through dispatch it would also be recorded.

Even better idea. Why don't we just have a separate TAC channel and when patients want to refuse, we simply key the mic up for them and have them say their name and that they are refusing transport...that way it is all on a recorded line, in the patien's voice and does not tie up unnecessary personnel. Yeh, I really like that idea.

Does it all seem crazy and outlandish? I think so.

[spenac]

Does it all seem crazy and outlandish? I think so.

Glad I made it to that statement before I completed dialing for the special padded ambulance for you. You know the one that comes with the pretty white coat with extra long sleeves. :twisted:

[crotchitymedic1986]

good suggestions spenac

[mobey]

IMHO you have shown that you were not a paramedic but probably someone that hates paramedics, possibly a fire emt, that or your experience was for the worst service in the world.

I am thinking a Fire/medic that had Fire taken away.

I know of at least 1 person who has PM'd him multiple times to ask where/when/how long etc... and he does not respond. Because of that and many recent posts I do not put much value in his opinion/advice.

[Mateo_1387]

If one medic talks a patient out of transport that needs treatment, just because he is being lazy, then that also means the partner is lazy. Fire them both.

I would say the whole 'supervisor calling and talking to patients' deal is pretty silly. It is a piss poor way to 'protect patients'. The best way to fix the problem is to have educated paramedics who can deny transport to those who do not need emergency services. Education will be the best patient advocate.

[crotchitymedic1986]

As usual, when you cant argue facts, you attack the messenger. I will not comment on this post any further, but since lies are being told about me, I feel a need to set the record straight:

Here is my inbox, no deletions, no questions about me-- I answer any questions sent to me:

possible answer to the scenario defib_wizard Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:05 pm

Re: hey there fire_911medic Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:46 pm

Re: hey Kaisu Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:54 pm

hey there fire_911medic Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:08 am

???? itku2er Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:30 pm

hello itku2er Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:42 pm

My background is over 20 years in EMS, mostly as a Paramedic, I later moved up into management. I have never been a firefighter, I have worked rural, urban, private, government, hospital 911 services over those years. I also worked in 2 ERs, including a pediatric trauma center. I left EMS of my own choosing, I have never been fired, and I look back on my career in EMS with great fondness.

Now, so that some of you may understand my post a little better, I do often take the opposite (most assinine) side of arguement just to see if you can prove your point. Call me a troll, a potato, someone who hates EMS, whatever you like, I call it playing the devil's advocate.

[spenac]

I will not comment on this post any further, .

Thats how many final comments now for this one topic? 99.99999999999876543210% of final comments are not final comments it would seem. :wink:

[JPINFV]

Thats how many final comments now for this one topic? 99.99999999999876543210% of final comments are not final comments it would seem. :wink:

Did you know that 65% of all statistics are made up on the spot?

[akflightmedic]

73% of all made up statistics (historically 65%) have been shown to be accurate after the fact 23% of the time, but this is reported from only a small study that was comprised of .68% of the general population.