When are we going to wake up as a profession?

[JakeEMTP]

I still think that EMT-B should be keep to a much lower requirement then the others since this would alow people to "get their feet wet" and try out if being an EMT is right for them with out having to put their whole life into it. Unless you made a EMT internship for people to try it out, somewhat like when they have a ride time for being an EMT-B but keep it simple.

The problem with this is, we are dealing with people's lives here. It's not like we can "try it out". If you ( generic you) find this isn't what you should be doing, somebody could die. Either you jump into this profession with both feet, gain the required education and advance into the field or find something else. It is not about us and how we feel, it is about the patient.

I do like the idea of more levels and other "fields" for EMT-Is and EMT-P.

You mean less levels, don't you?

and the Idea of changing it all over to a college system where class credits are transferable. If a college can teach an RN why not make EMTs be a college degree?

No argument on this.

Your posting has greatly improved since you first arrived in the City. I can see you are coming around to the majority way of thinking regarding education and EMS. Keep up the good work. :thumbright:

[Sir Andrew]

What I mean about "trying it out" is not having to have a Lower level that does not take a full two years not that they should not train but not to have to spend a "life time to train" if that makes sence to you.

And I guess not so much more levels but more branches to being a EMT-P like "Amhet1" was meaning with like

"advanced level Paramedic" which could be equivelent to an ER BSN, or Primary Care Paramedic where they can function semi-autonomously in rural areas (somewhat similar to the canadian model, if Im not mistaken).

and

We have flight medics, SWAT medics, We can develop NBC medics, knowledge in the public health aspect and have formal training to build our new managers, build advanced practice Paramedics. Obviously this is not an exhaustive list,

[EMS49393]

Hummm, a person can't "try out" being a doctor, accountant, teacher, etc. without spending a while in college. Why should people be able to "try out" our profession? My father is a CPA (certified public accountant) and he spent four years in college, followed by one of the most difficult professional exams. He did all of this before he was able to be employed as a CPA. Sure a person can take a less demanding regular accounting track, and they'll likely have the same opportunities and pay as the current EMT-B, slim and poorly.

My husband and I came from college paramedic programs. We are taken much more seriously in our jobs than the graduate of a six-month paramedic puppy mill. We have an easier time assessing and treating patients because we were required to take A&P. We are able to write complete and coherent reports because we were required to take English Composition. We have no trouble with med math because we were required to take college level mathematics. See the trend here?

It's time we face facts. Education is the goose that will lay our professional golden egg.

[Sir Andrew]

I see what you are meaning and I do understand it

but what I am thinking is like for the people (like myself) that don't and/or can't work as a 911 unit other than out ride time, but still have/need to be EMT-Bs for other jobs and such

and in a way yes a person does get to try out being a doctor. they have to work in a hospital as non-doctors before they become a full doctor and if they find that the hospital work is not something they can handle then they can change majors. But you would not get that as an option with an EMT so what I would think is make an EMT-B no more then say a 3-6 month college program that can be taken and then let them have their ride time and then if its not something they can do or they just don't make a good EMT they have not spent a full 2-4 years just to find that out.

Personaly I would reather work with some one that has had six months of training and find out that they are not cut out for this work than some one that has spent 4 years becoming a medic and then they not getting out since they spent so much to get there.

If you see what I mean

again I could be wrong since I am not a EMT but from my own thoughts thats how I would do it

[mobey]

Doctors however are not responcible for a patients life after only 3 months.

The way I see it, if you are unsure if this is the job for you, you can come ride-along for a few shifts. If you like what you see go to the 1 year college course to obtain EMT-B and go to work.

But I have a hard time with joe public taking a 3 month course and having total responcibility for a patient.

[veryamusing]

But you would not get that as an option with an EMT so what I would think is make an EMT-B no more then say a 3-6 month college program that can be taken and then let them have their ride time and then if its not something they can do or they just don't make a good EMT they have not spent a full 2-4 years just to find that out.

Personaly I would reather work with some one that has had six months of training and find out that they are not cut out for this work than some one that has spent 4 years becoming a medic and then they not getting out since they spent so much to get there.

If you see what I mean

again I could be wrong since I am not a EMT but from my own thoughts thats how I would do it

You're not wrong. My program was one college semester, or about sixteen weeks. It consisted of eleven hours, five lecture, three lab and three clinical. We had to do three eight-hour shifts in a hospital ER and four ten-hour shifts on a rescue with either the city or county fire department. That’s short enough that anyone who wants to just try it out hasn’t wasted thousands of dollars and year of their life. I got real experience, albeit not much, from real people working in the industry.

Also, if someone didn’t like it they simply dropped the classes, or in my case just never did anything with their license. I sat for the NREMT exam and passed it, and became licensed here in Florida. My license will expire in December and I never did apply to RMA like I had wanted to.

If possible, I’d like to share a bit more of my experience. Admittedly, I grew up watching Rescue 911, Trauma: Life in the ER, Critical Hour, etc. These shows portrayed the continuum of care in a positive light I thought and drew me in; I wasn’t simply looking to speed my way down the street, lights ablaze and siren wailing. I wanted to provide top-notch medical care to sick and injured patients. But when I started really researching my options, I learned that in my area there are just two providers of 911 service aside from the city and county fire services, either Rural/Metro or Health Central Paramedics; Florida Hospital EMS and American Ambulance do IFTs only. The lack of choices isn’t my point though; I also found out that RMA starts EMT-Bs at just $9.00/hour. This really surprised me, and I think it’s a clear indicator of the “value” they place on us as medical professionals.

Despite all the negative things I had read, I desperately wanted to do this, and so I did. I registered for classes but didn’t tell anyone until they asked me as I walked out the front door on my first night why I was dressed up in a neatly pressed uniform. When I answered that I was going to find out for myself what it’s really like, they brushed me off and told me I was foolish for not wanting to finish a Bachelor’s in finance that I had started.

What I’m trying to say is that everyone close to me had nothing but contempt for me and treated me like I was “less than” for actually wanting to work nights, weekends and holidays in all sorts of weather conditions to help people. I think this is how EMS is perceived in general. I think we’re thought of as skilled workers, and not medical professionals. They just don’t get it, and it’s up to us to make them get it.

When I finished this semester-long course and returned to UCF to finish my Bachelor’s (largely due to some advice I received from a firefighter preceptor to come back if I still want to once I’m done), I could hear everyone exhale. They were so relieved, and that bothers the hell out of me.

I’d really like to propose solutions to the problem, but I don’t know where to start. Actually, I do. I think that everyone in EMS needs to be more prideful. Yes, everyone; that includes me. I don’t have pride that I’m an EMT, and that’s why I let naysayers keep me from interviewing with RMA.

Do you have pride?

[air.stump]

Education, Education, Education.

Thats one of the keys to waking up the profession. I do advise caution here though. Here where I am at, all the schools in the state, took the right step and made all the paramedic programs associates degree level programs. Class sizes then went from mid thirtys to under ten. I thought that was interesting because the mentality of the students in my area was if I am going to go to school for two years then I may as well become a nurse. They (RN's) get paid better.

To me thats a double edged sword. One one hand, good riddance, your heart probley wasn't into it to begin with.

On the other hand, I see what you mean. A person's gotta eat.

The other thing our profession lacks is respect. Respect is earned and to me starts with appearance. Who is going to get the time of day from an ER nurse, a clean cut presentable person that uses correct medical terminology when giving report? Or is it going to be the pierced, tattooed person that acts as if the world revolves around their arse? Companies need to move away from the pulse and patch requirement for employment and look closer at the employees they hire to represent their companies.

I am also for one certifying agency for all aspects of prehospital care. All states on the same page. If a state has a need for an advanced care guy like the Canadians and the military have then that certification should be available to all who qualify.

One last thing. We aren't nurses. We can model our profession after theirs. But.....when we work in their environments, we should be equally trained as they are and certified as they are. In other words, both professions are fruits. Ones an orange and the other is a banana, two different professions with two different educational backgrounds.

Sorry all, didn't mean to ramble. I'll put the soap box away.

[Sir Andrew]

In light of already feeling like fool for opening my big mouth about something I don’t fully understand. :oops:

I am going to make one more post and hope I don’t stick my foot in my mouth this time.

One thought I do have about making EMT-B a one year college degree is how many people would not become EMT-Bs? I am sure that yes some of the people should not be EMTs at all but I am sure you all know some that have made some great EMTs. With the thought of changing the standards how soon would you have a shortage of EMT-Bs?

Maybe the best thought is to do it as a one year degree, but have an internship after six months either in ER or on an ambulance.

And maybe some of the non-medical classes such as Math and English could be online so people that want to be EMT-Bs but still have to work another job to pay for it.

What type of classes would you think an EMT-B would need other than the basic medical ones?

• A&P

• Math

• English

• Understanding a Map (this one is my idea)

• Any others?

If EMT-B is going to be a college would it be a good idea to let them do IVs (just little stuff like if they are dehydrated they can give them the fluids and stuff like that?

Ok I will shut up now unless you think I am being helpful. Please let me know if this is being helpful or just a waste of forum space. :?:

[akroeze]

With the thought of changing the standards how soon would you have a shortage of EMT-Bs?

Here in Ontario the minimum BLS entry to practice is a 2-year diploma.... as in you have to have a 2 year course to do any kind of work on an ambulance. I can tell you that there is no shortage by any stretch of the imagination. Think hundreds of applicants for 20 jobs.

[akflightmedic]

Here in Ontario the minimum BLS entry to practice is a 2-year diploma.... as in you have to have a 2 year course to do any kind of work on an ambulance. I can tell you that there is no shortage by any stretch of the imagination. Think hundreds of applicants for 20 jobs.

And if i may add, not only is there no shortage but the applicants are much more educated, more experienced, and an all around better choice...