Returning Vets to be fast tracked medics to ease shortage

[air.stump]

When I got out of the Navy in 1986, I would have thought such an idea was the greatest thing since sliced bread. I had just spent four years as a corpsman assigned to a USMC unit. THEN, I went to paramedic school and found out how wrong I was. The difference between the average, non-Spec Ops military medic and a civilian paramedic is almost night and day.

NOW fast forward a few years and I went into the Army and was shocked even again as to the differences between Navy medics and Army medics. Both are fruits but one is an apple and the other is a grapefruit. Also to be noted, both are products of their environment. They are only going to be as sharp as their duty assignments were.

It would be a mistake to skip any instruction and or education requirements above the NREMT-B level. We should be looking at ways to strengthen our profession instead of watering it down. Military trained medics have a place at our table once they have completed the same education and examination requirements as civilian paramedics.

[Dustdevil]

Quality first post, Air. Do us a favour and write that to your U.S. Senator too!

[daniell68]

AKflight medic, maybe before we talk about the difference in training for army medics we should do something about the training or lack there of for medics in alaska. I am an EMT IIIa in Alaska and have been paid in the EMS/fire for going on 20 years. I agree there are some differences in the training between military and civilians for good reasons. however the paramedic program that is going on in the interior is not putting out the quality of paramedic to be proud of by any means. The prerec for the class is EMT I (basic) but thats all, no time with a department, no time treating patients, no time on an ambulance nothing, right out of emt school and into paramedic class. Once the class starts they are taught right off the bat that they are better than Emt's, and as paramedics do not deal with vomit, emesis, or anything dirty that is emt work. So even though they are not even close to being a paramedic, they are running around the area with a bad attitude toward the emt level responders.

Very few of the instructors are working in the field as paramedics most of them got their paramedic then started teaching and have no field experience. So if you are going to give me a choice on who to work with an army medic who has experience, wants to work, and wants to learn. Or the new paramedic or paramedic student that thinks they are better than anyone else, Ill take the army medic.

I do think there should be a type of bridge course to go from an EMT IIIa in alaska to paramedic, I personally would love a chance at the clinical hours and extra training that would be needed.

[spenac]

Daniell it definitely sounds like Alaska needs an education overhaul if instructors are as you say they are. Is there only one paramedic school?

I am all for people going straight to paramedic as there is no benefit to time spent as a basic. If you work as a basic while taking paramedic you will have had plenty of time to practice bandaging.

You as captain (are you fire as never heard of an EMS captain? ) must work with new paramedics and help improve education. Many students and even experienced providers need help getting past bad attitudes and bad habits.

Now much of this could be avoided if all were required to be Paramedics but that is another discussion.

As to military to paramedic. Nope. I work with several that were classified military medics that work as basics, and it surprises me how little some know. But then a couple of them have tons of knowledge. They have all explained that some of them get to go get more education. But all agree beyond trauma they have limited knowledge or experience.

[mandalox22]

I can't decide if 90% of the people on this forum are just afraid that they won't have a job in a year or just plain have a paragod attitude. Reading what some of you have posted, EMT - B's do more than bandage people up. Everything that is important comes from your EMT-B class. During that class, you are taught how to assess pt's and talk with pt's, have some of you lost sight of were you learned the foundation of your current careers? If so, I encourage you to go back to a basic level class and see what is being taught. If you are not a good EMT-B, you will never be a good EMT-I or EMT-P! I love how paramedics walk around thinking they are gods to the EMS world, but really if you hadn't have taken that EMT-B class and learned those basics, you wouldn't be were you are today. It takes someone who truly wants to help pt's and save lives to be a great EMT-B, any idiot can learn about the 52 drugs you have to memorize to be a paramedic. I am currently going to the paramedic program and I will test in 2 months, but everything that has made me the medic I am, was my basic pt. assessment skills and knowing the question's to ask to figure out what was going on.

As for the military, I have to say that I agree with an earlier post, that I would rather work with an experienced military medic then a new (larger then life head and attitude) paramedic. I have seen some of the training that these guys go through and you want to discuss critical thinking and decision making? Try making a decision when bombs and mortars are going off all around you!! How many of you assist pt's and work on pt's in these conditions? None, when the scene is not safe, who do we call on, the police to come in and make it safe. So how much more critical thinking skills could you have (or have learned in a safe classroom) then someone serving as a medic during combat operations. So I think this forum is just more of paramedics worried about there pride and job pool.

[paramedicmike]

Manda:

Go through and read the forums carefully and thoroughly. You will find much more information to justify the positions held by many of us who have been in the industry for a while (several of whom who've been doing this longer than you've been alive).

I think you'll find the cliche inherent in your post will be, on many levels, shown to be outdated, wrong and a detriment to the industry as a whole.

Good luck.

-be safe

[JakeEMTP]

Everything that is important comes from your EMT-B class. During that class, you are taught how to assess pt's and talk with pt's, have some of you lost sight of were you learned the foundation of your current careers? If so, I encourage you to go back to a basic level class and see what is being taught. If youare not a good EMT-B, you will never be a good EMT-I or EMT-P!

This has been discussed ad nauseam and disproven many times here.

I am currently going to the paramedic program and I will test in 2 months, but everything that has made me the medic I am, was my basic pt. assessment skills and knowing the question's to ask to figure out what was going on.

Did you really know what was going on with your pt. after 120 hours of Advance First Aid and going through the alphabet assessment? Be honest.

Try making a decision when bombs and mortars are going off all around you!! How many of you assist pt's and work on pt's in these conditions? None, when the scene is not safe, who do we call on, the police to come in and make it safe. So how much more critical thinking skills could you have (or have learned in a safe classroom) then someone serving as a medic during combat operations.

I would

have none, but others here have and some currently are working in a combat zone. How many Combat medics are faced with a 80 y/o/f having chest pain.? This is the scenario we are more likely to face in the civilian world.

So I think this forum is just more of paramedics worried about there pride and job pool.

You would be wrong.

[akroeze]

I can't decide if 90% of the people on this forum are just afraid that they won't have a job in a year or just plain have a paragod attitude. Reading what some of you have posted, EMT - B's do more than bandage people up. Everything that is important comes from your EMT-B class. During that class, you are taught how to assess pt's and talk with pt's, have some of you lost sight of were you learned the foundation of your current careers? If so, I encourage you to go back to a basic level class and see what is being taught. If you are not a good EMT-B, you will never be a good EMT-I or EMT-P! I love how paramedics walk around thinking they are gods to the EMS world, but really if you hadn't have taken that EMT-B class and learned those basics, you wouldn't be were you are today. It takes someone who truly wants to help pt's and save lives to be a great EMT-B, any idiot can learn about the 52 drugs you have to memorize to be a paramedic. I am currently going to the paramedic program and I will test in 2 months, but everything that has made me the medic I am, was my basic pt. assessment skills and knowing the question's to ask to figure out what was going on.

As for the military, I have to say that I agree with an earlier post, that I would rather work with an experienced military medic then a new (larger then life head and attitude) paramedic. I have seen some of the training that these guys go through and you want to discuss critical thinking and decision making? Try making a decision when bombs and mortars are going off all around you!! How many of you assist pt's and work on pt's in these conditions? None, when the scene is not safe, who do we call on, the police to come in and make it safe. So how much more critical thinking skills could you have (or have learned in a safe classroom) then someone serving as a medic during combat operations. So I think this forum is just more of paramedics worried about there pride and job pool.

We have several people here (including those voicing the opinions your are bashing) who are military field medical personnel.

[spenac]

I can't decide if 90% of the people on this forum are just afraid that they won't have a job in a year or just plain have a paragod attitude. Reading what some of you have posted, EMT - B's do more than bandage people up. Everything that is important comes from your EMT-B class. During that class, you are taught how to assess pt's and talk with pt's, have some of you lost sight of were you learned the foundation of your current careers? If so, I encourage you to go back to a basic level class and see what is being taught. If you are not a good EMT-B, you will never be a good EMT-I or EMT-P! I love how paramedics walk around thinking they are gods to the EMS world, but really if you hadn't have taken that EMT-B class and learned those basics, you wouldn't be were you are today. It takes someone who truly wants to help pt's and save lives to be a great EMT-B, any idiot can learn about the 52 drugs you have to memorize to be a paramedic. I am currently going to the paramedic program and I will test in 2 months, but everything that has made me the medic I am, was my basic pt. assessment skills and knowing the question's to ask to figure out what was going on.

As for the military, I have to say that I agree with an earlier post, that I would rather work with an experienced military medic then a new (larger then life head and attitude) paramedic. I have seen some of the training that these guys go through and you want to discuss critical thinking and decision making? Try making a decision when bombs and mortars are going off all around you!! How many of you assist pt's and work on pt's in these conditions? None, when the scene is not safe, who do we call on, the police to come in and make it safe. So how much more critical thinking skills could you have (or have learned in a safe classroom) then someone serving as a medic during combat operations. So I think this forum is just more of paramedics worried about there pride and job pool.

#1 Any skill I learned as a basic has been covered but with education behind it in my paramedic course. I am very experienced with many years as an ECA, then Basic, now Intermediate and current Paramedic student.

#2 If only difference between a basic and a paramedic based on your school is 52 drugs your school sucks.

I have to know over 100 drugs, plus a lot about many more that we encounter daily with patients. I have know the ends and out of shock all the way the cellular level. I have to read/interpret EKG 3 and 12 lead. That is just a few major differences.

I am not a paragod nor will I allow myself to be. At the same time I will not blind myself or those I visit with into thinking a basic can really do much more than bandage. Honestly term should be basicgods because I see more undereducated basics on here talking like if it were not for them the earth would collapse.

PS are you enjoying your new emtcity name.

[DwayneEMTP]

Manda, I hope you'll have the gnads to stay around here for a while, because this place would be good for you. Unfortuanately know it all 23 year olds rarely if ever have the backbone to back-up the ridiculous statements that they sometimes make.

You say that you're one test away from your medic. I'm calling you a liar. There is nothing in your post that shows any intelligence or education beyond a brand new basic. To claim that you became "strong" in assessments in basic class (Are you kidding me!!) and then became weaker after medic school is simply idiotic.

Your statements make it clear that you know next to nothing about EMS, absolutely nothing about being a paramedic, and tend to believe everything you see in action films where military medicine is concerned.

I would like to offer you some sincere, friendly advice, though there is almost know chance that you'll take it that way, as history teaches us.

If you'd like some chance of being accepted here, or taken even slightly seriously anywhere that you may have spouted this nonsense, then simply retract it. Say something like "Oh my gosh. I was nervous about being new to the board, and new to EMS, so I just made up a bunch of crap to try and be impressive. I apologize for that, and would like to start over."

Anything else is simply going to further illuminate your obvious position as a poser.

Good luck to you.

Dwayne