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Returning Vets to be fast tracked medics to ease shortage


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I volly with plenty of combat vets who were medics and their patient care is excellent...you cant expect for them to be thrown right into the box whit out a little extra training..but they would do fine...smart people..a whole hell of alot smarter then most street medics...

First, you did not read all the posts in this thread or you would have had a better understanding prior to posting what you did.

Second, go ask those combat medics how they transferred back to the civilian world. Obviously they took a paramedic course as I can assure you they did not get reciprocity unless they were already national registered medics within their MOS. You only see that with the Air Force, PJs and some of the SF (18Ds) men. All the others have training and certs that are worthless in the civvie llife, hence redoing training when they get back, you know the entire purpose of this proposed bill.

Third, how are you capable of deeming them smarter than most street medics? If the combat medics you work with were in clinical medicine (oxymoron), then yes they have had more exposure and education in disease processes, the routine stuff; however this is not something we treat in the field yet, so the point is moot. The majority of them have not had indepth training; they have had a very broad, cookbook approach to learning what they need to know for that place in this present time. Yes it has and will continue to save lives; however once again, it is not what we need back home in the streets nor if we want our career to become a profession.

As for them being someone to work with under pressure, anyone can fill that role. Their combat experience makes them no less susceptible to caving in than the next person. What prevents people from cracking under pressure is EDUCATION, KNOWLEDGE, and COMPETENCE. These things are what make a great medical provider and have been found in all types of people, not just combat soldiers.

Give me a soldier fresh from the field and let's put him on one of my active MI patients with a 3 hour transport minimum. Give him RSI and fibrinolytics and let us see what happens. I can tell you, he will crack. Their training is different, end of story.

Trauma is easy. It is one of the most easiest scenarios as it pretty much is one of the few calls in EMS that follows an algorhythm. So someone being cool and calm whilst working rapidly to follow a recipe does NOT impress me.

What impresses me is when people pull past knowledge and experience out of their ass on a tough medical call and completely turn the patient aroound. That is freaking awesome! Medical calls are the toughest calls you will ever do and the most perplexing one would be you non specific abd pain. Which if you have any education behind you, you would know already that there are no less than 20 different differentials for an abd pain, more than half which could be serious to critical if left undiagnosed and untreated.

Having said all of that, I love how you said, " so they get a little brush up on medical", which indicates to me that you have absolutely no comprehension of what is involved in medical training. The most important aspect of EMS and you think they should get a little brush up in the area that they have had very little experience in to begin with.

Yes, I am intimately familiar with the training they recieve and you are obviously misguided, misinformed or being filled with stories full of untruth. Go do your homework and come back when you have more solid statements, facts, and references to support your opinion.

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are you familiar with the schooling they go through?

I am. I was one before I became a paramedic, which was before I became a nurse. Currently -- just like Akflightmedic -- it is my job to work alongside military medics all day, every day, in a combat zone. We are quite familiar with what their schooling and capabilities are. They are wonderful, but they are no more qualified to be street medics than an LVN is. Both need to go to school if they want to be medics. My life, and the lives of those I love, may depend on it. Consequently, no short-cuts are acceptable.

So what, besides what a couple of guys told you, do YOU know about their training? And what, besides what you have seen on some volly squad, do you know about their capabilities? Do you have any advanced medical education that qualifies you to judge their competence, or are you just figuring that, since they know more than you, that they must be teh awesome3?

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As a former Corpsman I completely disagree with this proposal. I happened to be fortunate enough to have been stationed within a critical care department of a large Naval Hospital, as well as 3 years with the Marine Corps infantry with 2 deployments to the sand box. Even with all this experience I was completely un-prepared for street medicine, as I learned very quickly in a rural system.

As stated before, the knowledge gained within the military can be very valuable although without the requisite knowledge gained in Paramedic school it will take you nowhere but very uncomfortable situations very fast.

I think that if you want to incourage military Medics and Corpsmen to continue on in Pre-hospital medicine you should cut out some red tape and let them go to the front of the line that is full of kids just out of high school.

With all this being said, let us please cut out the fuzzy wuzzy lets "help" the vet attempts that are led by politicians. Let us instead focus on assisting the young men and women adapt to civilian life without free handouts such as quickie Paramedic schools. Lets make a real attempt at helping them attain true professional status.

As this is my first post, and I just got home from a verrrry long shift I must apologize for any rambling and/or grammerical errors.

Be Safe

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As stated before, the knowledge gained within the military can be very valuable although without the requisite knowledge gained in Paramedic school it will take you nowhere but very uncomfortable situations very fast.

I think that if you want to incourage military Medics and Corpsmen to continue on in Pre-hospital medicine you should cut out some red tape and let them go to the front of the line that is full of kids just out of high school.

Quality post.

Welcome aboard, Bro. :thumbright:

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If the US military wants to provide these returning soldiers with an education that will provide them a job when they return, why not educate them as such before sending them over seas? In Canada military medics are put through PCP school before they are ever deployed. If you combined that with putting these medics on civilian cars for periodic rotations when they are home the transition time would actually be minimal.

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If the US military wants to provide these returning soldiers with an education that will provide them a job when they return, why not educate them as such before sending them over seas? In Canada military medics are put through PCP school before they are ever deployed. If you combined that with putting these medics on civilian cars for periodic rotations when they are home the transition time would actually be minimal.

I actually like this idea with proper oversite and such it could be a pretty big value to all involved. The problem with that plan is this... The military doesn't have much interest in its members being civilian certified, as this would not help their already problematic retention rates. If everyone were certified to do their military job as a civilian then many more people would get out. It is a lot nicer to work as a medic, or truck driver or whatever without constantly being sent overseas and being shot at. Many of my friends that stayed in did so because they did not feel they could gain worthwhile employment on the outside.

There are a few programs within the military that offer a NR paramedic certification. As stated before these usually have to do with Special Forces and the like. These operators operate on a very different playing field than the rest of the "regular medics".

In closing the system used in Canada would be nice for the individual Medics, however it would not benefit the military greatly.

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In closing the system used in Canada would be nice for the individual Medics, however it would not benefit the military greatly.

Hmmm... well, there's two ways to look at it. I think you are right, that this may not contribute in a significant way to long-term retention. However, it will very definitely contribute significantly to recruitment. People come here everyday looking for somebody to give them paramedic training for free, and pay them while they do it. The fact that military training is not transferrable is one of the big reasons that more people don't take advantage of that opportunity.

And I think that it would still contribute measurably to retention too. Simple math says that the more people you recruit, the more you will be able to retain. And, despite this nonsense about a "shortage", many of those medics are going to see the truth about the job market in the U.S. and realise that they have it a lot better in the military than working for AMR or having to sell out to the fire side... if they can even get hired. People leave the military for two main reasons; either they have better options on the outside, or they're just fed the hell up. EMS employment options in this country suck arse, and of the people getting fed up with the military, not too many of them are medics.

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I'm not a military man myself so this is an outsiders perspective. From what I've seen, read and heard, many things that the military men and women have received could be best described as "half-assed". Giving them a half-assed education is not going to remedy the situation. The military seems to train their enlisted for...the military, not civilian life. I do agree that efforts to assist vets should and need to be made. However, I can't see an angle where this isn't a bad idea.

Also, as I don't know that I've said it before, to the posters who are current and former military members or contractors:

Thank you.

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Hmmm... well, there's two ways to look at it. I think you are right, that this may not contribute in a significant way to long-term retention. However, it will very definitely contribute significantly to recruitment. People come here everyday looking for somebody to give them paramedic training for free, and pay them while they do it. The fact that military training is not transferrable is one of the big reasons that more people don't take advantage of that opportunity.

Well put Dust. There are always more ways to skin a cat. I have to say personally that if there were more opportunities for civilian certification (and therefore interaction) it would have probably made me more apt to stay in. You are absolutely right that retention would probably be higher if people have a more realistic idea about what awaits them. (if I interpreted your post correctly)

P.S. I recently moved to the state where even your mailman is a Paramedic any guesses anyone? haha.

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P.S. I recently moved to the state where even your mailman is a Paramedic any guesses anyone? haha.
Say it's not so. There is a reason we keep Californians on the other side of the mountain you know. :lol:
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