mtnsldr

Live tissue lab is pushing it, of course, but moulage would be nice... if you can't get the real thing get as close as you can, right? Live tissue is reserved for those "special" medics. Maybe someday I'll give a run at that stuff, if I feel like going back enlisted. SSG - Good luck hooking up with an ETT. I'll be joining that group you talked about it looks like. They are doing a near total change over in 2nd QTR. I don't want to sound like I am bashing the way the Army teaches BLS, its not that AT ALL. We're doing a great job, especially with the new curriculum. However, we have to very different (at least it looks like it to me) ways of running medevac, and very different timelines of treatment. The majority will be in Iraq where evac support is PLENTIFUL, but there are a select few who are going into dangerous places with potentially dangerous people, and could use some additional medical training for the long term solution,, when evac isn't immediately available. Maybe I'm totally blowing smoke, who knows. Maybe I'll never be more than a couple of hours from the FOB. I don't know yet. But there is a reason why the 18D is trained up the way they are, we seem to have a lot of folks doing "similar" missions (meaning that they link up with a bunch of indiginous, and execute ops far away from the flagpole) without the same kind of medical support integral to their unit.

Its a damn shame, one of the biggest problems guys walked off the line from was dealing with real, bleeding trauma. No prep didn't help. In Iraq, it was exactly how you describe, make the 9 line, evac chopper in bound and touching down within about 7 min. However, in A-stan I'm hearing things like 2 guys go out with a bunch of Afghani's and stay out for a week +. We're talking hours from the flag pole in areas where medevac doesn't go. With two CLS trained troops, the likelyhood of saving one another is pretty low, especially for most troops when the reality is that they learn CLS when the mob, and then that is the last time they actually do it. My group is going out without an integral medic to even keep us fresh when we're on the FOB. SOMedic: Sorry for the late reply, PM sent. I'm looking forward to the new CLS course, and hopefully the trainers will teach us the right way. With the training I have now, I will be able to give a realistic assessment of what they are giving us. Also I have downloaded the student and instructor curriculum, so that should the leave anything out, Johnny on the spot will be there to correct. However, I do feel that some folks are walking out into a situation where they could be in over their heads real quick, without the ability to get any type of ALS to their location for assistance when the SHTF. This is especially geared toward the folks who work ETT.

The term "operator" is not limited to one Branch's SOF. It is a "purple" term in all the applications I've seen it used. That being said, its also a term that is used for those elite style Police based units, and I've never seen any Military "operators" scoff at the use of it, because it applies directly to what they are doing. I think that most SOF are comfortable with the reality that Police Operators won't be confused with SOF Operators. That being said, I think most folks are right on in saying that most programs in the EMT-T training world (from the few folks I've spoken to) don't offer much more than a CLS level of education, but there are a bunch of folks out there who NEED that level, and aren't able to get it due to being "civilians." I think there is a bonafide need. I also think that there should be some courses designed that attain a higher level of training than what is seen commonly in the EMT-T world. There are a ton of things that a trained EMT-B or CLS could practice on to provide a higher level of care to their soldiers/officers, as well as gaining familiarity in practicing their craft in combat - simulated conditions. I am anxiously awaiting my chance to attend the new CLS course, and I hope that it encompasses more than what I think it will, I'd like to see things like emergency care over the long term (hours), casualty assessment and treatment during "combat" conditions, living tissue work to familiarize the student with the realities of injuries (moulage was a giant step in the right direction, this is just the natural evolution), and even insertion of trach tubes (don't think this is part of CLS.) I'm a fledling in this brotherhood, so I'm sure over time I'll learn more things I wish I'd known ahead of time, things I will learn the hard way about gunshot and blast treatment.

I am not CLS certified. Myself and the other leadership were required to leave both training sessions to handle other situations during our mobilization. I hear this next trip I have to become certified to deploy. That being said, from what I have seen much of the training you pay for has more in it than CLS does. You don't do live tissue in CLS, you don't learn how to manage bleeds with TQ's in CLS (only how to apply them, and are in fact taught never to remove a TQ, ever, which isn't entirely accurate, just Joe proof) among many other things. CLS is a great beginning, and is more in the Trauma department than EMT-B, however I don't think the blanket statement that CLS = TEMS is accurate at all.

All I've done is drag people out of "ca ca", but that was a movie (www.thewartapes.com). My reference was that I have done enough kicking in doors (and I'm about to do another damn year +) and I'm all set with being SWAT. But supporting SWAT from a medical standpoint, that sounds better. I guess I just boiled that all down into "dragging their happy asses out".

Perhaps I overstated it a bit, and I am unqualified to speak about cops, not being one. However, your average infantryman, CLS or not, does not have a significant emphasis on medicine. The next time you're in a CLS course take a minute to watch the soldiers. Are they intently listening to the instructor? Or trying to hide the fact that they keep falling asleep? Trigger pullers would rather be pulling triggers, that is just reality, that is why the EMT's/Medics are around. Oh, and all soldiers are now required to attend CLS predeployment, so you'll get a lot of opportunities to see those sleeping joes. I'm not saying that all don't care, but the majority of folks (and my assumption extends to cops) would rather be spending their time training on something they feel is closer to their job description, not sitting in a medical class thinking "isn't this the medic's job?" "Edited for clarification: I don't agree with the above paragraph, however I do feel it is the common perception."

Tac Medics exist because Cops don't care about the training, (I'm guessing, its pretty much the same reason Combat medics exist, if you could teach and infantryman to give a crap about chest seals, IV's etc, you wouldn't need medics.) I wanna be a tac medic because I don't care about law enforcement, I'd rather be the guy dragging their happy asses out.

The question becomes, does it only run as fast as the EOD rigs do? transport at 5-10 MPH is almost as fast as I can carry the dude.

Oh its all ego! I just wanna look cool brother... 8) AHHH!!!! WACKER ALERT!!!!

Any idea where it was purchased? I'm looking for a puretone tactical and the only place I can find one is www.rangerjoes.com, which isn't known for outstanding prices. Thanks!

Unfortunately the name seems to tell it all... :director: The Admin is a PERV! For all the Canadians :knob: Hey, my landlord is on here! :thebirdman: :violent3: :violent1: :violent2:

And what exactly was the reason for public embarassment? Could this have been better handled offline? Maybe you wouldn't have looked like a judgemental asshole then...

Its not that, but you have to admit your story was a little over the top. 300 people at the ER? I gotta admit, it sounds like a case of post-incident embellishment. Just another big fish story. The sad part is, it was interesting enough without that part. Adding it just made you look worse. But, thats just my $.02. Not to mention not one of your sources corroborated that figure.

First night actually (it was last night.)

Suitcase? Wow, you guys do live in luxury in the Medevac world... The rest of us still use duffle bags... :wink:

But someone who has never been in EMS before doesn't know that, or where to get them. The only thing I knew about EMS was that on Saturday morning at 3 AM the EMT's pulling "Johnny Intoxicated" out of his rolled over truck/car were wearing jeans and a sweatshirt or their highspeed jackets. Our full time FF/EMT's (all two of them) wear blue pants and a 3 button polo. The old standard on TV is apparently the "Ricky Rescue" spokesperson, and they wear pants with as many "EMT specific" pockets they can find. I think its easy to not know what is normal if you're the new kid on the block, getting his EMT to get hired. Obviously, if we were all lucky enough to be hired first, (and the department had an explicit policy on uniforms) there would be no issue.

Stay safe, head down and all the other requisite advice. Perhaps we can perform link up operations sometime in 07 upon my arrival at your location.

We talked about clothes. If you have questions above and beyond that, stop wasting bandwidth complaining about how we aren't discussing the topic you want to and ask some intelligent questions to change the direction of the topic.

Well, we're a small town. It may not be the latest in technology... 8-[ Hell, our chimmney fire tool is a steel weight on a chain...

Ruff, We do use a saw. But in order to use the saw, you have to be able to get it through the window. A lot of techniques can be used to get that saw in the window, and one of them would be a punch. Another, as I saw effectively used was the sledge, although not the most delicate of tools... Thats what it all comes down to, techniques, gentlemen.

Lol, I've punched as many windows (EMS related MVA windows to be specific) in a year as a firefighter as Dustoff has in 30! There really is a difference it seems, depending on where you live. In the rural area I live in we see MVA's quite often that require punching windows and removing the vic by removing the roof of the vehicle, or removing parts of the vehicle to get them out. Went to an MVA where it was laying on its side, the rear door was accessible but only to put an EMT in, not to get the vic out. Had to punch the windshield (no punch available, so we used a sledge off the truck) and cut the roof off. I think we're going to get different loadsets based upon what kind of incidents you see consistantly, and that is what should dictate your equipment requirements.

I'm hoping to get CLS. I'm not deploying as part of a typical unit however, but as a training element, so a lot of O3's and some senior NCO's. We won't even have an integral medic... :shock: :x . I know that much of the training is an entirely different focus from the EMT world here in the States to the rushed trauma situations of the combat zones, but like I said, it will most likely get you thinking in the right frame of mind, and get me set up for a change of career when I return. If I ride a desk anymore, I'll become a freakin zombie. As an Infantryman (and SSG G-man can attest) we constantly review and adjust our "load" to ensure that we are carrying to proper tools for whatever job we're doing, and drop whatever is unnecessary. I imagine this job will be no different, and I plan on organizing my equipment for my EMT life the same as my ruck and Load Bearing Gear for Army life. Thanks for all the responses. MTN

MrsRankin: No, I'm going after my EMT-B on my own. I'm just doing it for myself mostly, and because some day when I get back from the next trip to the sandbox I want to work as a fulltime Firefighter. I am not a member of a department, as I don't live in a town with a vollie squad right now, and the only close squad won't take me until I'm partially complete Basic. My plan is to do Basic before I deploy, and then complete I when I return, and see if I have the desire to become a Medic. This conversation spurred me to pull my trauma kit from my deployment out of my truck. (Ever since I ran up on a scene where a kid I went to HS with got T-boned by an F350, I've carried some medical equipment in my truck, because nobody on the scene had any, and this guy was in bad shape. In fact, when I found him he was sitting in the passenger seat because he had no seatbelt on, and I was trying to find the driver because I couldn't believe that it could have been him, he looked so natural, like he'd been the passenger the whole time.) It consists of 4 rolls of 6 ply 4.5 in x 4.1 yd Kerlix, two of those bandage wrap deals with the little metal teeth clips, and 4 more packaged standard issue military bandages, and my personal micromask (I'm CPR cert'd.) Generally, while deployed, the injuries you faced required treatment of jamming shiatloads of kerlix into the wound and waiting for the helicopter, a far cry from the way EMS is done here. However, we were not given cathaters and needles to play with (just our NBC contaminant needles, the ones that speed up your heart rate, and then settle you off so you can die peacefully of exposure :roll: ) As Infantrymen, we also train often on the basic admintration of medical aid, the common soldier level tasks, such as treating shock, bleeding, and breathing issues, as well as scene size up. However, as it is a perishable skill, we have to train on it repeatedly, much to the chagrin of much of our soldiers... admittedly, EMS is not as much fun as throwing lead downrange for most of these folks. Oh, and I'm a stubborn ole' bastard, it'll take a lot to scare me away. I was just surprised at the seemingly "this is the only way it is" responses. Not sure I've experienced that anywhere else.

Wow, sorry to have caused a stir. I do have a bit to share on the tangent we've embarked on. Now, I am not an EMT yet, nor do I belong to a department. I also am not well versed in the laws regarding EMT interaction with PT's or others who seek (sane or not) to injure said EMT. However, I have carried a knife on my person for several years now (going on 8 if memory serves...). A knife is nothing more than a tool. Those people who view all knives as weapons most likely are the sort who shouldn't carry one. Like MrsRankin stated, use of a knife in a controlled fashion can help expedite tasks you are required to perform. As I stated in the beginning of this post, I am not an EMT, nor do I have any experience in the field. However, my common sense meter is kicking in, and I'm wondering if EMT shears shouldn't be left to what they are there for, assisting patients in need of care, not conducting mundane cutting chores like MrsRankin described. I would think that using tools for purposes outside what they are dedicated for would produce undo wear and tear, and increase the opportunity for that piece of equipment to fail when needed. As I stated, I carry a knife daily. I've never used it as a weapon. I don't bring it to have a weapon. I consider it a tool just like the ones in my tool box in my truck, just for a specific purpose. I've used it as a knife, a screwdriver, a hammer, and to complete a host of other tasks, all in the confines of my pocket. BTW, MrsRankin, I love your avatar. I keep my pistol in my truck at all times. Oh, and is this place really as "My way or the Highway" as it seems?

Yeah, I can understand the need for excess uniforms. Luckily I have access to TONS of BDU's since the Army has changed uniforms. Unfortunately, they are all Woodland Camoflauge. I figured BDU's were probably the way to go, but I will admit, all of 5.11 Tactical's stuff is nice too... But I'm not an undercover cop...