flamingemt2011

I have not suggested that patients be told right away, or that the be told about EVERY error, again, I posted this as you have made a SERIOUS Medical error that could harm/kill the patient. I am fine with a long drawn out process where everybody in your organization frets over the problem, and launches new initiatives to make sure it never happens again, as LONG AS THE PATIENT IS NOTIFIED AT SOME POINT. But we are going around in circles, so here is a simple way to clear it up: All of you have a Director/Chief. I bet you that that person knows how many errors have occured and how many have been reported to the patient/family this year, or they can ballpark it. So go ask them for the numbers, and the numbers only, you do not need to know the details of each error (although I bet you know every error that has occured already as the gossip line in EMS is fast and furious). Then come back here and report the number, you do not have to provide the agency name or anything about the incident, just numbers. Of course, no one is going to do that, because you know the answer is going to be similar to mine below: My service has recorded 13 errors this year, 3 of which were classified as critical, no report to the family or patient, only to the CQI Committee, Medical Director, and Attorney. My Director stated in his 26 year career, he has only reported one error to the family, because during the initial complaint, they disclosed that their home security system recorded the medics the whole time they were there, and there was no way to deny it. Otherwise, errors are only admitted if we are sued, and the facts have to be disclosed.

Now you opened up a can of worms lol: 1. Cain's plan is just what we need. What most people don't understand about taxes are two things: a) Corporations do not pay taxes. All of thier costs, including taxes, are built into the price of their products. You can raise taxes on corporations all you want, they will in turn raise the price of their goods and services, and you will pay the tax for them through your purchases. 2. There are embedded taxes in everything you buy, as Herman explained with the loaf of bread analogy. The farmer buys the seed and fertilizer and pays a tax to grow the wheat. He harvests the wheat and sells it to the flour company and pays a tax, the flour company sells flour to the bread maker and pays a tax, the bread maker sells the loaf of bread to the grocery store and pays a tax, the grocer sells the bread to you and you both pay a tax. All along the way, each of those taxes were added into the cost of bread.

Great story dwayne, and I am sorry for your loss, but all I am advocating is that ems patients get the same. BY your own admission u appreciated the honesty and did not sue. I would argue that your service has no QAQI if no patient has been notified chbare. And ruff if the lawyers make the decision I can promise no patient had been notified

So how many patients have received notification by your service dfib? Or anyone else in the room? If your system is working then surely after going through all channels, 1 patient this year has been notified?

First of all, yes I admitted my mistake, it was a long time ago, would handle differently now. Second, I hypoyhisized a serious medical mistake that harmed the patient, not a minor oops. Third, note that I asked how your "service" handles that, not the medic, bit I doubt there are many in this room whoever report it to the patient. Fourth, if u have harmed a patient, they have a right to sue. I can not tell u how disappointed in this room's members today ; I see lawyers in here not patient advocates. I know u guys and galls are better than this, change the word "patient" to "your child or your mom", and tell me u r still buying the stuff u r shoveling?

Guess we need to change the name of this site to C.Y.A.CITY

amazing, it is always men who want to control the uterus

Dwayne, the patient would know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. When you state that the patient would be too stupid to understand the truth, you sound like the cigarette companies years ago. We are talking about a mistake that is potentially life threatening, too hide and cover up to save your ass is not the definition of patient advocate. In any other industry it would be called criminal.

Just want to correct something in this thread, this is in no way an "EMS Service(s)", this is a bunch of medicaid van crooks using ambulances as their next level of fraud.

It seems Herman Cain just ended his chances by announcing that he would support a constitutional amendment to ban abortion; just lost all the women and independants. Looks like 4 more years of Obama, because you know when it gets closer to election time, Perry's goons will start attacking Romney's Mormon religion.

No, as mentioned, Cardiologist said it was his best guess, not mine, and he is not the sue-happy kind, which I do not understand. Anyway, back to the real issue at hand; Am i the only one in this room that sees our practice of hiding the truth from the patient as dangerous ? From the EMT Code Of Conduct (circa 1978) The Emergency Medical Technician refuses to participate in unethical procedures, and assumes the responsibility to expose incompetence or unethical conduct of others to the appropriate authority in a proper and professional manner. Couldn't find the section that says we should lie, coverup, and hide our errors so that we do not get sued.

Its not a legal marriage, but u r correct . Yes it is silly for me to believe he would go in today cardiac arrest for no reason at all, without having an MI, guess it was colonel mustard in the parlor with the candlestick To not today, android auto correct And only he can get the chart, something called HIPPA

What does my current or future financial condition have to do with the patients right to know?

They did not find an "embolus", but all of the tests performed ruled out everything else. It occured shortly after "air" was injected into what they thought was the kidney (guessing), but was also not long after sedation was administered. Again, hard to say when you can't read the chart, assuming the truth was documented. Of course, he is old and trusts his doctor, so he never sued to find out what really happened.

Pros: Great site, good people who are passionate about their profession, good topics with lively debate. Cons: Too many trolls, too many people who have blinders on and refuse to acknowledge that it is possible that they are wrong, or that there is more than one way to skin a cat.

He didnt die, he amazingly survived despite his healthcare professionals best attempts. He had kidney stones that were too big to pass. Instead of having them blasted, he opted for a procedure where they insert some kind of tube and drain them out, we never found out the exact way the embolus was introduced (through medication or part of the procedure to dialate the kidney), since no one would own-up to the mistake. But the cardiology team agreed that there was no MI or any other ailment that would have caused sudden cardiac arrest. And as liberals usually do, when you have no arguement founded in logic, you insult the person. So I ask you, in Dwayne's or anyone else's world, what scientific or moral formula do you use to decide if your mistake is worthy of reporting or not ?

I have to agree crapmagnet, private services are the wave of the future, as the economy worsens. AMR and RM can usually provide EMS at half the price of county services who pay people to sleep.

There is a reason that things are done the way that they are done despite your need to try and wrap the entire process up into a healthcare wide system designed exclusively to protect stupid medics. And if I believed as you claim to, though I doubt actually do, I would still follow the process based on the likelihood that a gazillion years of moral/ethical/educated/committed Drs and nurses and psychologists and philosophers before me have likely come up with a better plan than I'm able to based on a few years of EMS service. Dwayne Fair enough Dwayne, you imply that the current system is not broken, because you divulge your mistake to a Doctor or Nurse, who then buries the mistake in the ER. I would state that is a very broken system. How did you feel when the whole Ford Explorer / Firestone Tire thing was going on ? How do you feel when you hear that 50 people across the US die from a food-borne infection, and upon inspection the feds find a plant that is horribly unsanitary ? Why should our mistakes be treated as "special" versus any other industry, especially since lives are on the line. Again, I am not asking you to admit when you did something that causes no harm and is minor, I am talking about real mistakes. I can give you a real life example; my fatherinlaw when into a clinic for a simple non-life threatening procedure, and was perfectly healthy. 2minutes into the procedure he is in cardiac arrest, due to the physician pushing an air embolus into his body during the procedure. Their initial story was that it must have just been a freak heart attack, only after pushing the cardiologists in the ICU did we finally learn about the embolus. The Doctor never admitted to his mistake, nor apologized. If I did not have the medical training that I have, I would have believed that freak heart attack crap like my relatives did. That is your idea of a system that works, Health "professionals" covering for other "professionals" (term used very loosely).

Wow, over 3,000 views, but only 20 responses (by only 3-4 members). Come out of the bushes folks !

But not to the patient !!!!!!!!!1

AMAZING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I admitted I was wrong, why am i a troll because I point out a serious problem in our industry ? You kill a patient, hide it to protect your job, and you are somehow supposed to be respected for doing so ?

I heard about that on the radio, but cutting beards does not equal murder

Did you ever use a tourniquet ? every time i start an IV, lol

So again, your fear of losing your job justifies not letting the patient know that you screwed up ? So again, where do you draw the line, because every disclosure could result in a lawsuit, so do you never disclose any errors to the patient ? I am shocked, most everyone in this forum seemed to have such high moral standards. Now the standard is "as long as it does not hurt me". You all chastised HLPP in the obese patient on the floor thread because she might hurt someone, now you are saying it is OK to hurt someone and not disclose it because you might lose your job; i believe many of you said you would rather lose your job and protect the patient rather than do an unsafe act because your supervisor ordered it. Hypocricy 101 !!!!!!!!!!!!

So if you have an incompetent medic in your service, like the one described in the story, his job security is more important than the patient's right to receive quality care ????? How do you determine which mistakes to hide and which ones to disclose if you do not agree with my "report everything" view ??? Do you just base it on the ones that won't get you fired ? I don't think so Dwayne, I have read your posts for awhile, and you are better than that.