Just Plain Ruff

I was looking for some varied opinions on this but I'll throw mine in. Pericardiocentesis - not allowed in vermont - done by this guy - yes lose your license 2 medications out of scope for the management of airway - this guy gave em - out of scope - yes lose your license. letting the patients sister take direct patient care when there was obviously enough people there (especially when he could send another medic into the hospital) FAIL but doesn't qualify to lose license. just stupid And to delay transport waiting on a doctor to come perform pericardiocentesis - FAIL MAJOR FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL I'm sorry but this medic was a direct (maybe not the complete and utter cause) cause of the death of this patient. Everything he did made it worse and he helped in my opinion hasten this patients entry into the afterlife. And although I feel sorry that this guy lost his license and such, I'm not going to lose an ounce of sleep over it because it was definately a deserved loss. Besides, I hear McDonalds or Jack in the Box actually pays better than most EMS systems in Vermont. Losing his license was and is the least of his worries. He now stands to lose his house, his car, his dog and his everything else all because he wanted to practice cowboy medicine and show off what he knew and what he could do. To say that "I may lose my license" and then go ahead and do the procedure demonstrates to me a conscious disregard for the patients well being. There is a reason why a certain skill isn't allowed in a certain state. I mean I've been taught to do a pericardiocentesis in medic school, doesn't mean that I remember how to do it and that I even should do it. How many of us medics have even treated a patient who needed one? Does my ambulance even carry a needle long enough for the procedure? I really don't think so? How many of your ambulances out there carries a long enough needle to do the procedure. I'd be interested in hearing back from those out there? Do you have a 4 inch or so long needle in your trauma kit?

did you read the same article I had. I believe it specifically said he had performed the procedure in a different state and that he had been trained in the procedure. And I would bet that the lawsuit will not be a short and simple because there were others on scene, another medic especially who should have stopped him so that medic is closely responsible as well. The lawyers will be working on this for a while. They will find any and everybody who was there and all will be invited to the party. They will have to give their sides of the story and that will not be quick. I expect this to last for at least a year if not longer. Plus the family will probably not accept the ambulance services first, second or third offer. To me this sounds like a medic who was unable to separate the skills of one state over the other. The only thing that blows that out of the water is that he said "I might lose my license over this" and thus we are at this juncture. Unfortunately, a guy died.

Question to AK at the end of this post but heres my response True on the null and void portion but does the average EMT have the money to go to a lawyer and spend the hourly fee that that lawyer will charge to get that non-compete ruled null and void. I Think Not. I have been threatened with a non-compete and have won on my side for a couple of reasons but the bottom line is this, if you read what you are signing and you know and understand what you are signing before you sign it then you should be good to go. If you don't understand the legal verbage and not many emt's or local joes who do, then you go to a lawyer first and have them go over the non-compete. I'll ask this of AK - would you hold it against a future prospective employee if they took your non-compete to their attorney to have it explained to them? Would you look negatively upon that employee if they did that?

*1. Keeping a "multi-systems trauma victim," who was within sight of the hospital, on scene for a prolonged time. * 2. Allowing the patient’s sister, an EMT on the scene, to remain on duty and become directly involved in patient care. *3. Allowing two medications to manage the patient’s airway that are not listed or approved for use as an induction agent during intubation attempts. * 4. Sending another paramedic to the emergency department at Southwestern Vermont Medical Center to request that a physician come to the scene to perform a pericardiocentisis. The physician requested "multiple times" that the patient be transported to the hospital. *5. Performing two unsuccessful attempts at pericardiocentisis, a procedure not allowable under the Vermont EMS paramedic scope of practice. Ok, which of those wouldn't have possibly lost him his license. 3 and 5 if he actually did them and it sounds like he did would be cause to lose his license. Why is that so hard to understand that he shouldn't lose his license for doing number 3 and 5. Anyone want to give me a reason why he should not lose his license? Pros and cons for and against him losing his license on numbers 3 and 5 alone.

If i have to choose i choose neither Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

I mean if we can give valium or other rectal drugs with rapid onset why are people surprised to think that the same won't occur when they shove a tube up the bung hole and open the spigot and let the alcohol pour in. I'll bet this person sues the happy go lucky friend who shoved the tube up the pooper shooter and opened the tube up. Of course it's not the idiot's fault this happened to them.

you know, you just can't make this stuff up. I don't feel a bit sorry for anyone who does this type of stupid stuff. But what I do fear is that one day one of these darwin candidates might be in a position of authority or in a level of our government that could directly affect us in the public and that's what scares me.

You dont have to hate her isnt she dead Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

Suspicion is she came back after break and entered in a process that she was unfamiliar with. She may not have been briefed completely and fully on her return. Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

EB what a great post. You know KU MEdical Center had a similar issue about 10 years ago with their heart transplant program. NOt sure of the circumstances around it but it was pretty bad causing it to stop transplants for a couple of year. Now it's one of the top places to get a transplant. So I am fully in agreement with the lack of oversight in EMS. Just how many of us know someone in EMS or have ourselves have given a medication error or even given a fatal medication error(not anyone on this board RIGHT?????? perish the thought) but we know or have heard of someone. The lack of oversght is profound. Medical billing fraud, medication errors, going against protocols with no justification, cowboy medicine, patient assault, patient sexual assault, many other issues that come up in the news. The list is exhaustive. How do we deal with this? I'll bet that this hospital will have some lessons to share if only we in EMS would deign to listen.

So they never did go on to say if the fire call really did have people trapped. If the fire call turned out to not have people trapped, then why didn't they send an ambulance as soon as it was determined they weren't needed at that scene? That article like every other negative article against the EMS systems in this country, gives not enough info to make any sort of judgement.

My boss one time told me, if the patient calls us, we go. If it's to a neighboring town we respond but we also call the neigboring towns ems. We tell that town that the patient called us. 5 out of every 10 times we were cancelled. the other 5 times we transported because that town didn't transport to any hospital other than the hospital in their town. So it was not unusual that we transported 10% of their patients. Pissed that other system off big time. Lost revenue for the other service - sure. But there was obviously a service they didn't provide and we filled a gap. Maybe this is one of those gaps. Or maybe the other service who is 'stealing the calls' is making a effort to get business the old fashioned way 'by stealing it" it does happen. The story might just be true.

Welcome, how rural are you KS? i'm gonna bet you are a lady because most guys would have mentioned the dog but not the kids. Nice to have you here.

But when the big ole fire guys save my son's dog Ace Bender Ruff (yes that's his name), I'm gonna remember them in my will. If the ambulance guys save my daughters dog Abigail Von Buren Ruff I'll remember them in my will as well. So they both will win, it doesn't matter that they both are taxpayer supported departments and they both run out of the same station and are named the same "South Metropolitan Fire and Rescue" The Publicity that they will gain more than makes up for the sacrifice that they will give by getting their pictures in the paper. I do believe that maybe one or two of their members might (and I'm in full congecture mode here) be members of the witness protection program or they may be aliens who are living among us. I'm not sure which it is right now. My paranoia is getting the better of me right now. I think I need to take my medicine.

I had a lawyer one time tell me this. "To forgive is human, to sue is divine!!!!!" and he believed it.

What I meant is that I hope they are a forgiving type and forgive the incompetence but make them pay out the nose and force them to evaluate why they FUCKED up in the first place. Forgive the fools but fix the freaking issues. I'm not saying to forgive the screw up, I'm saying to forgive the person making the mistake which is what my nature would do but you can bet your bottom dollar that there would be heads rolling, dollars filling up my bank account and my brothers because it was his kidney(a viable kidney to boot that they took out of him and flushed, one that he didn't need to give to me but did in order to help save my life, but he can't give me another). What the hell do you tell this family? "oops, we're sorry, we threw your organ that was supposed to go in your body away, in fact, we flushed it down the toilet. WE can't even go dumpster diving for it and clean it up and put it in. It's probably in ole Jake the sewer alligator's gut right now. But for your pain and suffering, we still will bill your insurance company and anything they don't cover, remember to send us a check for the remainder of the amount as we did hold up our end of the bargain by providing you at least a partial service. This is why some in healthcare can give all of healthcare a black eye. From the top on down, all should be held accountable and heads should roll. There are over 970 people who are now trying to find a new transplant center all because of incompetence at the bottom. As Bugs bunny would say What a bunch of boobs.

My God, how do you recover from something like this. What incompetence. First off the living donor's kidney, is gone, which was the patients brothers which was in effect, WASTED. Do you think they billed the insurance companies for the surgery? You can bet that the nurse who flushed the kidney is the one who got fired. Every last one of them involved in this abortion of a disaster should have been fired. What a bunch of boobs. If I was the patient, I'd be suing them because in essence, they may have signed my death warrant because depending on how bad off I was the kidney transplant may have been my last hope. Let's just hope that this family is a forgiving type. But do you really want to go to this hospital for medical care? Jeesh. Hopefully the patient made it out alive.

Where did he go? Me thinks he really didnt want the criticism. Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

Yeah if he was a firefighter there would be no investigation.

"Into the Tiger's Den" by Claude Balls

Plus i would always use a manual cuff to check bp in a child and infant. With the kiddo moving around so much the nibp machine may have a significantly more difficult time obtaining a valid reading. Plus you will get really proficient in taking peds bps which you need to be anyway. Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

Just what do you say? We f'd up? Nope that would make them look like they didnt have things under control. Wait....... They apparantly didnt. Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

Yep, can't honor one, you gotta honor em all. Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa It would hurt their wittle feewings.

Not according to Apple Maps. It's the staten Island Ferry. The PR nightmare just keeps on getting worse and worse. Sarcasm off