ballistics vests for EMS providers?

[Dustdevil]

Somebody seems to be intentionally manoeuvring away from the issue at hand here, which is ballistic body armour. Returning to that issue, if you think you can avoid the need for wearing a vest by staging on runs that are dispatched as violent in nature, you're delusionally naive.

Try this: Find a dozen medics, cops, or firemonkeys who have ever been shot, or even shot at, and ask them, "did you know before you made that scene that you were going to be shot at?" Every last one of them will tell you the same thing; if they had known they were going to be shot at, they would not have made the scene. DUH!!

There it is. You absolutely will not have any idea whatsoever that you are going to be shot at until it happens. There is no warning. There is no sixth sense. There is no specific type of run it always happens on. It just happens, and when you least expect it. Look at the nimrod in NYC who walked up on an MVA a few months back and got shot at, putting his partner and patients at risk. Do you stage on MVAs? Do you strap on a vest before you make MVA scenes? What about unconscious persons? First shots ever fired at me were at an unconscious person scene. Hell of a rude awakening for a teenager who just hit the streets. But you know what? I began saving money for my first vest that very night!

It just amazes me that I -- a mere teenager with less than a month on the streets -- could immediately figure this out, yet mature, educated people with two decades in the biz -- and a wife and kids at home depending on them returning each morning -- still don't see the light. What's up with that? :?

[AnthonyM83]

Sorry that's http://dt4ems.net/ not .com

[Scaramedic]

The times I thought I was going to get shot was an auto vs ped, an MVC, and a rape. Body armor is like gloves, the one time you have an HIV patient is the one time you won't be wearing gloves. Why take the chance?

[Dustdevil]

The times I thought I was going to get shot was an auto vs ped, an MVC, and a rape. Body armor is like gloves, the one time you have an HIV patient is the one time you won't be wearing gloves. Why take the chance?

Excellent point! I'd wager that 99.9 percent of those who think they don't need a vest on every run do think that they need gloves on every run. Interesting, since the numbers say the opposite. Maybe it's because BSI was pounded into their head in school, but body armour wasn't? Regardless, I can't help but be very sceptical of the intelligence of anybody who just doesn't seem to get it. It really seems like a no brainer to me.

Interestingly, as I post this, Fox News is showing video from a SWAT standoff in Austin, Texas, and it showed a city-county medic walking around carrying his body armour.

[AnthonyM83]

I'd wager that 99.9 percent of those who think they don't need a vest on every run do think that they need gloves on every run. Interesting, since the numbers say the opposite.

I was about to say, I don't think HIV is that easy to get, even if you have micro-cuts on your skin and have them covered in blood. Yet, it'd be stupid to take the chance, huh. It'd be different if it were a deep needle stick, but in that case your gloves don't do you much good, anyway.

[captainstandup]

Thats an ugly accusation dust

Ok fine I'll buy a vest. There has been a lot of discussion regarding what type and threat level is appropriate for EMS. In my opinion the level that best protects us from small caliber handgun and to the greatest extent possible knife attacks would be best.

I doubt we could practically afford anything resembling the military stuff Dust wears over in the sandbox and if we could would it work with unform attire? Never forget vanity!

It appears, at least for now, that the threat of high powered rifle and IED ordinance is very low in the US. This may change if Hillary gets elected and collapses our borders while waving the green flag to those who hate us, but that discussion isn't for this thread.

In the meantime we can begin helping our folks obtain the necessary safety equipment. We must stablish a process of conducting better scene surveys and teaching our folks to expect the unexpected. Develop a sense of suspicion and caution. exercise good "economy of motion" while on scene which will permit reduced scene time. This isn't to imply we offer substandard care but simply work more efficiently.

[AnthonyM83]

You don't necessarily need to go get yourself one. At least MY main point, is that those who claim there's a need for them shouldn't be criticized.

[Richard B the EMT]

I saw a video clip of G. Gordon Liddy, one of the Watergate conspirators, taped from his radio show. This is a former FBI agent, people, and he told his audience that if you ever shoot at a LEO, to aim for the head, as there is rarely any armor there, or the face if they have a helmet.

Whose side is this former agent on? This is worse than the idiots who tell people, to get an ambulance sooner, tell the dispatcher someone is having a heart attack, or to get the cops, that there are shots being fired.

I don't mind telling you, even though I never met the man, or anticipate meeting him, he scares the crap out of me, even now!

[Doczilla]

I saw a video clip of G. Gordon Liddy, one of the Watergate conspirators, taped from his radio show. This is a former FBI agent, people, and he told his audience that if you ever shoot at a LEO, to aim for the head, as there is rarely any armor there, or the face if they have a helmet.

Whose side is this former agent on?

He may be smarter than you think. Aiming center of mass gives you a much better chance of hitting something. By making the aim point someone's head, it will be much more difficult to get on target. Add that bit of stress to the overwhelming stress of shooting at someone who is shooting back at you, and chances of getting on target are even smaller. And people who need to be told that police officers wear body armor probably aren't the best marksmen to begin with. If anything, his comment will decrease the chance that a thug will be able to make a hit on a cop.

Not only is the military type vest impractical for street use, it's hot, heavy, and expensive. The coverage provided by the IBA is excellent, and it is very well engineered. Hard body armor for level IV threats is most certainly overkill. Unless you are on a SWAT team.

A vest appropriate for EMS:

Level II, which is appropriate to the threat posed by most handgun rounds that you are likely to encounter (essentially police caliber).

Woven kevlar or twaron, not laminate

Hard trauma plate in the front

Concealable carrier so you wear it all the time regardless if you "think" you won't need it.

'zilla

[Scaramedic]

Liddy is a nut. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't he have a fear of lightning as a kid so he chained himself to a tree during a thunderstorm?