Scene Safety

[livnbreathems]

Hi everyone,

I am new at this and wanted to start a discussion to see how it goes. Me and a couple of other medics were discussing scene safety the other day and I was wondering what experiences you all have with scene safety...especially interested in some self defense moves if anyone knows any. We are looking for ways to help our duty crew learn how to defent themselves in an unsafe environment especially in an ambulance going down the road when all crap breaks loose and a patient becomes combative or tries to grab you for some odd reason. If you know of any self defense moves that we can teach providers or any stories of scene safety that we can act out and see how they react let me know. I appreciate everyones responses.

[medic001918]

While the desire to keep yourself and fellow crew members safe is admirable, it's difficult at best to "show" you how to protect yourself from these patients on an internet forum. The best asset you have on any call is your senses and those little "feelings" that you get. Keep a keen eye and know when things just don't seem right. In time, the senses develop even more so.

As far as when things get physical, your best bet would be to pursue some sort of self defense classes locally that would be of benefit. You may be able to get a deal through a local business if you approach them. I can't really describe how to perform some of the techniques, but I can do them physically after 5 years of martial arts when I was younger.

Shane

NREMT-P

[Ridryder 911]

Check out www.dt4EMS.net He is a Paramedic that is a member of this site, that offers self defense classes and courses designed for scene safety in EMS. I highly recommend that you visit his site and maybe have your state EMS offer his courses at local conferences etc..

Good luck!

R/r 911

[paramedicmike]

I was going to also mention the dt4ems site.

Barring that, if you want to learn self defense, you need to go to formal training. Using self defense moves without proper training and knowing the limits of what you're doing can end with your hurting someone or yourself. This is NOT something you want to do.

If you want to learn self defense, find a reputable training program whether it be a self defense class or a martial arts class. This is just as much about protecting you as it is protecting the person from whom you're protecting yourself.

Don't go half assed. Do it right.

Good luck.

-be safe

[Just Plain Ruff]

I have a video of the top 100 deadliest karate moves but I don't think I need to show them to ya! Might get me in trouble.

[Ridryder 911]

I still wear Hai Karate, does that count?.. (now, I am showing my age)

R/r 911

[Richard B the EMT]

I still wear Hai Karate, does that count?

Oh

My

GOD!

Yes it dates the two of us, and probably more.

[Scaramedic]

My experience in scene safety is as follows.

The scenes where you actually worry about scene safety, i.e shootings, assaults, are usually the safest scenes you go on.

The scenes that you think are safe, i.e chest pains, minor MVA's, sicks, are the scenes that can turn gnarly the fastest.

Self defense training is great but do not get in the mindset that only the "cool" calls can be dangerous. CP's can be psychos, MVA's can end in gunfire and sick calls can be OD's in a drug house. Also the best defense in EMS is sometimes retreating and letting the boys with guns and tasers take over.

Peace,

Marty

P.S. Hai Karate, do you still wear polyester disco shirts also? Geezers.

[Rescue0ne]

Self-Defense?

Unless the patient is armed with a firearm, the best thing to do IMO is to put something between you and the patient.

Examples of such items include:

1) Stretcher

2) Ambulance or Fire Engine

3) Law Enforcement Officer

Unless you're qualified Tac Medic, AND you're suited up appropriately...why assume the risk of engaging the subject/patient in H2H or attempt a restraining hold? Pile into the rig, lock your doors, and call for PD/SO. We're not paid enough to subdue subjects. At least we're not in my area.

Now, once you're in the rig, and enroute to the ER...that's totally different. In the back of the truck is considered "close-quarters". You need to be able to differentiate between Close Quarter Combat (CQC) & Close Quarter Self Defense (CQSD). I do not recommend baton or tactical knife training initially, w/o approval from your agency/department. Even then, you're opening yourself & your department up to a lawsuit, should anything actually occur that makes it necessary for you to engage the subject.

I impart this advice after 6 years in the military, in addition to 15 years of Shorin Ryu Karate, and service with the NYC Guardian Angels (Patrol & Training Divisions). I didn't mention the years of EMS service here, because they conveniently left out self-defense in the Paramedic Program Curriculum.

If you're insistent on learning the sort of self-defense that would be most effective in your situation, let me know, and I'll make a recommendation based on where you're located.

Did I ever previously mention I'm 1/2 Japanese? Dontcha know all us asians know "kuh-raw-tee"?

Additionally, I'll thank you in advance to keep the "vigilante" comments to yourself.

Cheers!

[DT4EMS]

Well I will give you a quick .02 worth.

Self-Defense in EMS is different than in any other field. Wherever you train think of 4 things to train for

1) The battle of your mind (when can I? Will I get in trouble? etc.?) Officers have extensive training in this area.

2) The actual physical battle. I am not going to start a debate of what system works best, but you better train in somethign that has been "pressure tested".

3) The battle of the media. (Headline reads :Paramedic beats up drunk patient) This it what makes EMS different from any other group.

4) The courtroom battle. If you don't follow local and/or Federal law you may find yourself on the losing end.

If you don't train in all 4 areas you are setting up yourself for failure.

I have taught hundreds of EMS providers DT4EMS. Based strictly from the EMS perspective. Not as a police officer or a martial artist (although I have a background in both).

We use stress scenario training to help the EMS provider recognize limitations and don't blow smoke. The job of the EMS provider is to provide care. Training in techniques where you expect "pain" to cause a person to stop will not always be effective. Remember the people that assault EMS usually fall under one of the 5 D's

Drunk, Drugged, Diabetic, Deranged and someone really amped at a Domestic.

The best tool you have in any situation is your mind. Situational awareness is the absolute best thing you can do. Knowing when things are starting to get bad, having a code word or phrase between you and your partner and get out.

Preparation is not paranoia

Stay Safe.

Kip Teitsort