Oxygen. . . Can that drug by itself save lives?

[future medic 48_234]

That's the ticket! Yall are great! Those answers are what I needed. Sometimes I just can't think. I know that for a fact that an apnea patient does need PPV @15 LPM.

Take care,

Charles

[kyle308]

i think it can save lives just to the fact that it often has a calming effect on people

[TerrfyinFlyinSrvc]

O2 via room air is not a drug. Supplemental O2 from the tank in your ambulance or the end of your cot is a drug. It isn't like our patients are sitting in a vacuum wait for us. If so, then how come you or I can live on 22% O2?

Well, I certainly was not implying that they were.

Although to take up your point, the same can be said of many substances, whether salts, sugars, metals, calcium or any other chemical found in the body. Salt on my celery is a food, saline whether administered via IV or orally is a drug. Too much or not enough in my body will kill me, although not as quickly as a lack of O2.

I will also point out though, that under many circumstances oxygen is a deadly poison. Long term breathing of 100% O2 is potentially very harmful, and extreme depth divers will breathe mixtures containing around only 4% O2.

[Asysin2leads]

All right, someone hand me my cane to shake at the whippersnappers and help me up onto my soap box, ahem...

One of these days kids, one of these days, you'll realize that medicine, and by extension EMS, is not about saving lives, but about helping others. Oxygen doesn't save a life. It may in the long term prevent someone from dying, but then again, you could say the same thing about oh, drinking water or such. Isn't it enough just to make someone feel better? I mean, today, I didn't do a single lick of emergency medical care. No IV's, no defibrillations, no medications or daring high rise rescues, I didn't treat a single sick person today. But what I did get out of today was a nice quick chat and a hug and a little kiss from a lonely sweet elderly lady who accidently set off her medic alert while napping, just because I made her feel good by showing up to make sure she was ok. So, ummmm, there. Do your job, qive them the oxygen, and stop worrying about it. With liberty and justice for all, amen, God save the Queen.

[JPINFV]

Well, I certainly was not implying that they were.

Although to take up your point, the same can be said of many substances, whether salts, sugars, metals, calcium or any other chemical found in the body. Salt on my celery is a food, saline whether administered via IV or orally is a drug. Too much or not enough in my body will kill me, although not as quickly as a lack of O2.

The difference is that you don't get very many people saying, "You can't live without salt, therefore every patient gets a bag of saline wide open" where you do get people saying, "You can't live without oxygen, therefore everyone gets 15 LPM via NRB (and then I need to call medics [/answer to every medical question in basic class]).

I will also point out though, that under many circumstances oxygen is a deadly poison. Long term breathing of 100% O2 is potentially very harmful, and extreme depth divers will breathe mixtures containing around only 4% O2.

EMS isn't long term care, and that is why patients are brought down to the lowest level of oxygen that they need when they reach the ER. It's quite common for RNs in my area to ask me to take patients off oxygen so that they can get a room air sat. The second case applies to a limited population. You might as well say that candy is deadly because it can cause great harm to diabetics. Sure, deep sea divers might need 4% while diving to avoid O2 toxicity, but under normal atmospheric conditions, 4% is deadly.

[Dustdevil]

I know that for a fact that an apnea patient does need PPV @15 LPM.

By what delivery method? Where do you get that figure?

[TerrfyinFlyinSrvc]

And finally, I'M NOT ARGUING!!!!!!

I was just pointing out things I found interesting about O2.

[future medic 48_234]

By what delivery method? Where do you get that figure?

Delivered by a bag valve mask. Got that figure from class and my book.

[Dustdevil]

Ah, okay. Then technically, you aren't actually providing "PPV @ 15lpm." You are providing PPV at a totally unknown rate/volume with 15lpm of oxygen flowing into the bag or reservoir. And depending upon the BVM model, it may require less or more than 15lpm to achieve.

In other words, yes, your patient needs PPV. And he needs maximum FiO2. But how much oxygen flow he needs is not chiseled in stone. To mention the oxygen flow in your statement is like specifying a syringe size in a medication order. It's not really relevant.

[future medic 48_234]

FiO2?