EMT-Is and the death penalty...

[uglymedic]

As was mentioned, I do believe that that boils down to personal feelings about the death penalty. As far as the scope of practice goes, it is continually expanding. I've transferred patients with thrombolytics, whole blood, paralytics, etc., why not the sedative, paralytic, and potassium used for lethal injections. From the shows I've seen, the medications can be adminstered by a machine. So an IV is started, and a button is pushed.

I do not intend to offend anyone here that believes the death penalty is wrong. Good for you on not being silent about what you believe in.

I am also aware that unfortunately, due to glitches in the judicial system, "innocent" people have been executed. I say "innocent" because they usually have a mile long record. Still not justifiable. Corrupt officials, law enforcement, prosecutors, and inept defense attorneys can also make this possible. I cannot or will not defend these cases.

I also see the point in saying that we are to help people, not kill them. It makes us look bad, etc. The executioner is not usually paraded around in uniform before administering the penalty of death. Think of the hooded axemen.

Now, it's time for my opinion. I stress that. My opinion.

By all means, sign me up! I'd be more than happy to put down a few baby rapers/killers! Line 'em up and I'll run an assembly line! What? You raped and killed fifteen women then dismembered them and scattered their remains? Well, then you don't even deserve the sedative or paralytic! I'm pretty sure the victims didn't get to be with their families for the last hours/days of their lives nor have a "last meal". They probably begged for their lives! Matter of fact, for the serial rapists and child molesters, I'll save the state the money. All I'll need is two eight foot backboard straps, a pneumatic framing nailer, and a baseball bat. I'll give them what they deserve. Miserable, sick f*cks.

Yes, I'm twisted. Yes, people are saying this is sick. Apparently jail doesn't deter some and it's been determined that pedophiles cannot be rehabilitated. Perhaps a gruesome execution or two would keep someone's pants on and away from the playgrounds.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programme!

[emtkelley]

Actually, I'm in favor of the death penalty. As an EMT, I am offended we would be considered to be asked to partake in this activity. In turn, I will never carry a piece. It's not my game. My purpose in the EMT world is to try to make a difference in my patients lives by practicing medicine to the best of my ability for the good on my patients.

Anyone caring to write these monkeys about their hairbrained idea can do so here:

mocorxns@doc.mo.gov

source: http://www.doc.missouri.gov/contact.htm

I will be choosing my words wisely as I write and even though I understand they will most likely fall upon deaf ears, I feel it is important as a member of the profession to stand up and make it known we aren't going to be anyone's patsy.

[Ghettomedic351]

OK, please forgive me. I had a link to aa story I wanted to share the other night but the sever was down. Now I can not find the story and it is driving me nuts.

Anyways, I can not recall which state it was, however they are proposing allowing/hiring EMT-Is to start the IVs and push the drugs on the inmate's death day. It seems they are having trouble hiring and keep anesthesiologists who have been doing it for years as required by the previous law. They will still have a doctor on hand to declare official death, but they think this will help by eliminating some of the docs ethical and moral dilemmas.

The quote was "they are trained to do IVs, so why don't we use them".

How do you feel about this...and if anyone finds the article, please post it.

Edit: I found the story..it was jems.com

http://www.jems.com/news/111464

Well to take a bit of pressure off the intermediates , MO at this time does not have an EMT-I level of training so in the event this happens it would be left up to the paramedics. I think they could find enough Jack Kervorkian MDs in the world to handle this job for a nominal fee. Furthermore it is not euthanasia, it is an execution remember this person might have killed anything from a crackwhore to your neighbors daughter or grandmother. I personally believe that strong emotions would definitely be involved either way.

[Asysin2leads]

Everyone else remember the first rule of medicine, 'primum, non nocere'? That is, first, do no harm. Its not a matter of whether you agree with the death penalty or not, its a matter if you can rectify the fact that you are using your knowledge of medicine to cause someone's death, which is a big no no.

Trust, me there a quite a few people I wouldn't mind personally offing, like the scumbag in my neck of the woods who took an intoxicated 18 year old girl back to his hotel room, raped, strangled, and stuffed her body into a garbage bag. I'd like to say, screw the needle, give me a 12 pound sledgehammer and a big rock.

But, the fact of the matter is I did once swear an oath to not do such things, alas. Also, I'd like to say, show me an EMT who is willing to jump at the chance to end someone's life and I'll show you one who's never seen someone take their last breath.

[Ace844]

Everyone else remember the first rule of medicine, 'primum, non nocere'? That is, first, do no harm. Its not a matter of whether you agree with the death penalty or not, its a matter if you can rectify the fact that you are using your knowledge of medicine to cause someone's death, which is a big no no.

Trust, me there a quite a few people I wouldn't mind personally offing, like the scumbag in my neck of the woods who took an intoxicated 18 year old girl back to his hotel room, raped, strangled, and stuffed her body into a garbage bag. I'd like to say, screw the needle, give me a 12 pound sledgehammer and a big rock.

But, the fact of the matter is I did once swear an oath to not do such things, alas. Also, I'd like to say, show me an EMT who is willing to jump at the chance to end someone's life and I'll show you one who's never seen someone take their last breath.

Seems to me the victim of that was from up this way....If we are talking the same case..Night club bouncer the perp?

[Just Plain Ruff]

Ok, I hear both sides of the coin.

But I have taken several steps back and evaluated what I would do and if I could take a life no matter what that person did and I find that I could not do it.

We operate under the "oath" of do no harm.

The being that I Have to answer to is God and I believe one of the commandments is Thou shalt not commit murder. I wonder what he considers murder??? Does he consider capital punishment murder (the taking of another life)????? I think I'll pass on the executioner's hood and face my maker with at least the knowledge that I didn't participate in executing someone.

[FL_Medic]

Ok, I hear both sides of the coin.

But I have taken several steps back and evaluated what I would do and if I could take a life no matter what that person did and I find that I could not do it.

We operate under the "oath" of do no harm.

The being that I Have to answer to is God and I believe one of the commandments is Thou shalt not commit murder. I wonder what he considers murder??? Does he consider capital punishment murder (the taking of another life)????? I think I'll pass on the executioner's hood and face my maker with at least the knowledge that I didn't participate in executing someone.

good call

[uglymedic]

Asysin2Leads:

"Also, I'd like to say, show me an EMT who is willing to jump at the chance to end someone's life and I'll show you one who's never seen someone take their last breath."

I have seen many people young and old take their last breath. Some of them were very good people. Some of them were not. I did the best I could do and some of them lived to breathe more and some of them didn't.

This is not about people having an emergency. This is about people who have killed men, women, and children. People who have done unspeakable things to innocent children. I recall one on the news about a man who kidnapped, raped, and BURIED HIS 4 YEAR OLD VICTIM ALIVE! Do these sick twisted f*cks deserve any pity or mercy? No! Is incarcerating them for the rest of their wretched miserable lives going to help them? No! Get them off the same earth/plane/dimension as me, my wife, kids, family, friends, and everyone else! The sooner the better.

Now I can say that I wouldn't be opposed to not killing these pieces of sh*t if they received a beating once a day while they're in the slammer. Instead, they get three hots and a cot, cable, education, etc. while I'm scraping and borrowing money for food for my kids. There are elderly who have to choose between meds, heat, and food. Why is this loser scumwaffle more comfortable than them? These people should have considered Primum Non Nocere before they killed a family of six with a dull hatchet after making them watch their mom get raped repeatedly.

I know I'm not going to change anyone's opinion about the death penalty.

Plus, I believe I have seen an article about Paramedics being able to administer the death penalty in Texas.

If your state needs someone to knock off some of these scumbags, drop me a line.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Shedding a tear "but they are people too"

But seriously, even though they did stuff that would curl many peoples toes I still don't think it's the business for EMT's and Paramedics to be killing people, yes you can sugar coat it but you are basically killing a person in the states name.

There is no way that a EMT or paramedic should be doing this, plain and simple.

[streetsmart]

I'm from Missouri and I can't imagine the Missouri Unit of EMS ever signing off on this!