Can EMT-B take ACLS or PALS?

[KnightInWhiteSatin]

I am an EMT-B in California. I realize that ACLS is not in the EMT-B scope of practice but according to the American Heart an EMT can take the class. Is there any state law that prevents an EMT-B from having an ACLS or PALS card? Does anyone know of any EMTs with these cards? Thanks

[mediccjh]

You must be at least a paramedic to take the PALS or ACLS class. It is a prerequesite.

[Ridryder 911]

American Heart Association whom is primary responsible for these programs regulate the courses. Both these courses are considered education courses. It is recommended that the participants have knowledge and experience in the course content. Being this, it is not recommended that is not at the level of the basic EMT.

As an instructor for both, I do not recommend attendance. It involves materials most basic level have not been exposed to as well as clinical skills not in the realm of the basic level. I would recommend another course or placing the money in courses to expand your education. PEPP is one that I would recommend or PHTLS.

Remember; attendance and passing these courses DOES NOT CERTIFY anyone, and does NOT allow them to perform any the skills.

Good luck,

R/R 911

[SSG G-man]

Hey Rid,

You know I am new and ready to learn. If fact I am spending the next three days at EMSToday in Baltimore. PHTLS, that Pre-Hospital Trauma Life Support, Correct? How does one find a place to take that? Here most course are run by the state of MD through MFRI.

Thanks.

Sarge, out.

[Ridryder 911]

Check this site out. In it should be listed some upcoming classes in your area, if not contact course coordinator in your area to see upcoming events and classes.

http://www.naemt.org/PHTLS/

Good luck in continuing your education.

R/R 911

[KnightInWhiteSatin]

Thanks for the advice I appreciate it. I think I will look into that PHTLS Class.

[EMS49393]

Hey Rid,

You know I am new and ready to learn. If fact I am spending the next three days at EMSToday in Baltimore. PHTLS, that Pre-Hospital Trauma Life Support, Correct? How does one find a place to take that? Here most course are run by the state of MD through MFRI.

Thanks.

Sarge, out.

I took the first PHTLS course offered by MFRI in December 2004. I really enjoyed that class, and I recommend it to any level provider. The card you get will reflect basic or advanced provider. It's difficult to find it on the website and it took me a few minutes to bring it up. They are having a class at MFRI headquarters on 4-12 according to the schedule. Give the College Park office a call. Good Luck.

[Asysin2leads]

I really don't see a problem with an EMT sitting in on an ACLS class, nor would I imagine an instructor would either, if the EMT agreed that they would not be privy to anymore rights or privelages than if they had not taken the class, and they did not needlessly bog down the pace of the class with questions that could be answered by a higher trained provider. Education is a good thing. However, ACLS is a pretty nuts and bolts class. It really doesn't delve that much into the understanding behind why we do what we do (as it is assumed the person taking the class already knows that), and since you really won't be able to use the procedures in your scope of practice, it won't really matter. Then again, I took PHTLS when I was an EMT-B and got to practice a few intubations on dummies. Not that it ever helped me, but it was really fun.

[Ace844]

If you also use the search function at the top of this web page you will find that there are approximately 3 previous threads on this same topic. You should be able to garner more info there.....

ACE

[Dustdevil]

If you also use the search function at the top of this web page you will find that there are approximately 3 previous threads on this same topic. You should be able to garner more info there.....

Thank you, Ace. :thumbright:

Since the chances of our friend taking your advice are slim to none, I'll just recap the key points here:

• 1. Individual course coordinators are in exclusive control of who is allowed into their courses.

2. There is no universally established prerequisite except for current (yes, they do check!) Healthcare Provider BLS certification and "proficiency" with 12 lead EKG interpretation.

3. Many, many ACLS courses (especially those run by hospitals who don't know an EMR from a CCP) allow EMT's in.

4. Yes, some EMT's even pass. I did. But it's damn rare.

5. They don't teach you any skills. They don't teach you to read EKG's. They don't teach you to administer meds. They don't teach you to start IV's. They don't teach you to intubate. All they do is guide you through the process of knowing when to utilize those skills you should already have during cardiac emergencies.

6. If you don't already know all of the above, you're going to be completely lost and look like a complete idiot when you get singled out for mega-code and don't know how to interpret an EKG. And if you cause the rest of the class to get out two hours late because you didn't know any of this, you're likely to have to call a tow truck at the end of the day.

7. If you manage to pass, you still have achieved nothing since it is not a certification to do anything. It is merely a continuing ed class.

8. The medics you work with aren't going to be impressed. They're going to think you're a wanker who isn't good enough at his BLS to start wasting time and money on ALS.

9. The EMT's you work with aren't going to be impressed. They're going to think you're a wanker who thinks he's better than everybody else and will resent you.

10. And, as your crowning achievement, you just got to spend $100 to $200 dollars for the privilege of that humiliation. Congratulations.

• PHTLS is a different animal. It is specifically set up to accommodate both basic and advanced providers. There is a different test for both. Although there is a good bit of advanced content, the EMT is not responsible for it. And, like ACLS, they aren't going to actually teach you any advanced skills, so don't expect an opportunity to learn invasive techniques. It's a good course, so long as you have a good coordinator. But it can also be an almost complete waste of time if you have a bad coordinator (which most seem to be). Regardless, it is the industry standard and I highly recommend that you take it so you can learn what an idiot you are if you aren't using a KED.

If you are military (including Guard and Reserve), I seriously recommend that you take the Military PHTLS provider course. It is pretty much the same course, except it is an extra day long to cover specific military applications. The Military Provider course is, thanks to military structure, much more consistent in its quality than the civvy course. Look for the military coordinators at the www.phtls.org website. Shoot them an e-mail with your info and most are very accommodating in allowing walk-ins, so long as there is room. And it's usually free that way too!

And, as always, minus 5 for starting an ALS thread in the BLS forum.