EMT-B straight to Medic?

[JakeEMTP]

I am in a medic program now after being a basic for approx 6 mths. The only reason I waited that long was for the program to start. I keep reading this thread and constantly see the same theme, " get experience, then go to medic school ". It's not like they keep us away from pt's untill we are certified or licensed, as we will be in NC be the time we're finished. We do have pt contact's as you all remember.

Most of my classmates are currently working with pt's all the time via transports, or Volly 911 services except for the 0 to hero group, and they're turn will come during our clinicals. 300 hrs hospital rotations and I think we will see more pt's then , then some in service ppl see in a year.

We can debate this 'till the cows come home, but at the end of the day, it is all up to the individual.

[Dustdevil]

I agree, Jake. Experience during school is a great teacher if you can get it. Makes it a LOT better if you get the opportunities to apply what you are learning. But experience before school is definitely of negligible benefit.

[Guest]

I wasn't planning on responding any further until Dust wrote what he did ...

His comment about how there are no other professions that have stepping stones like EMS really hit home, because that's EXACTLY what my program co-ordinator told me last year when I applied to his program. He told me that yes, most people would probably look down on me for going straight through to ALS school, and many people don't agree with it, but that's tough.

If you want to be an RN, you goto school for your 4 years, and you graduate as an RN. If you want to be a physician, you put in your time, and you graduate an MD. He has the theory that if you want to be an ACP (sorry for the Ontario terms ...) then you should be allowed to do just that.

Aside from the fact that I won't be able to function as an ACP til late next year due to how scheduling for the provincial exam writes are, I'll still get that oh so valuable experience as BLS provider first in the mean-time.

Zach

spelling edited

[zippyRN]

,snip>

If you want to be an RN, you goto school for your 4 years, and you graduate as an RN. If you want to be a physician, you put in your time, and you graduate an MD. He has the theory that if you want to be an ACP (sorry for the Ontario terms ...) then you should be allowed to do just that.

however as an RN you will have had structured clinical exposure built into your pre -reg education ( 2300 hours in the UK and other EU conutries don 't know aobut US?Cdn/AUS/NZfigures)

ditto for the physicians, plus PRHO/F1 /intern jobs

traditional UK EMS training saw people work for 2 years as a tech ( 1 year as probationary tech and 1 year post basic) before going onto paramedic training , Uk Higher education preparation for practice is following Nursing / therapy professions model of practice with the couple of thousand hours of practice placements built in

[Dustdevil]

Great point, Zip! And that is among the weakest points in EMS education. The abject inadequacy of the clinical experience in most medic training programs is appalling. The reason so many people believe that you should get "experience" first is because the schools are FAILING to provide that experience in the first place like they should. That should be fixed. People should come out of school with sufficient experience to have confidence in their abilities. It should not be the burden of employers to train medics to the minimally functional level they should have attained before they sewed on a patch. Quite frankly, damn few EMS agencies have the resources and ability to do so.

If you came out of EMT school needing a couple years of experience to become proficient, then your school sucks, plain and simple. The way to fix that is with more education, not with two years of driving people to dialysis.

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

The way to fix that is with more education, not with two years of driving people to dialysis.

Yet again I remind you, BLS does ALOT more than that outside of your small sliver of Texas.

That being said, Rest of your post is right on the money.

[Guest]

Exactly zippyRN, whoever sets the standards for that province or state, sets the required minimum hours of clinical experience they feel is necessary to complete the program. The experience factor is built into course. Here in Ontario, as a PCP, the ministry of health wants a minimum of 450 hours riding an ambulance as a third in order to complete your paramedic program. The school your attending has the ability to make those hours even higher should they choose to so do. Some people need more time, others don't. As an ACP (paramedic level in the USA), the bare minimum is roughly 500 hours on an ALS car, with minimums on certain ALS skills (intubation, IVs, electrical therapies etc) and my school has put minimums for certain calls (mainly cardiac arrests) plus the time spent in-hospital in the various departments (OR, ER, acute care, OB/GYN etc).

The point I'm trying to make however, is that when you're finished your RN, RT, MD ... whatever it is, you're allowed to practice independently (within reason ...). Why should EMS be any different? If people don't think the minimum number of clinical related hours is enough, then raise the standard! I'm all for more exposure in a controlled setting, where you know you have the backup should you need it.

Zach

[Dustdevil]

Yet again I remind you, BLS does ALOT more than that outside of your small sliver of Texas.

Some do. Good for them. But the overwhelming majority do not. That's my point.

[PrissyEMT]

The reason so many people believe that you should get "experience" first is because the schools are FAILING to provide that experience in the first place like they should. That should be fixed. People should come out of school with sufficient experience to have confidence in their abilities.

I agree completely. Granted, even though right now I am technically on the BLS side of the fence, my goal is to come out of my paramedic program being totally and completely confident in my abilities. Our school stresses that to us constantly- if we don't feel comfortable in a certain area, they want to work with us until we've totally got it it down, no matter what or how long it takes. They've set minimum clinical and field hours, but they encourage us to do more than that, and to do as much as we can. I plan to take full advantage of it, because it'll do nothing but benefit me in the future.

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

Some do. Good for them. But the overwhelming majority do not. That's my point.

Your point is wrong, which was my point (for those who followed that)

My feeling on this topic has always been completely based around your area, region, and how things are done.

If you live in an area like Texas, where most of your 911 crews are strictly ALS, with limited availability of BLS 911 experience, then by all means go straight to Medic school. Not doing that will only hurt you.

In a large part of the country, 911 BLS exists, and in some, they are included in busy metropolitan systems. Until you have enough time under your belt, know the system, how EMS works, are comfortable with this being the direction you want to go, seen patients, understand patient care, etc etc etc, you can only be helped by BLS 911 time.

Completely intrinsic on the area you work is all...

*Shuts up to allow dust his rant*