ERDoc Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 Momma B has always taught me that most Houses of Worship, regardless of the actual religion, are supposed to be hospitals for the soul, not museums for saints. How can you heal the soul when you teach hate and murder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B the EMT Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 I do not have a good philosophical answer to that. The Bible says, "thou shall not kill", then mentions wars in the names of religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Plain Ruff Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 Why whenever the topic of faith or religious views is brought up are those who profess their faith forced to explain their faith beliefs yet those who do not believe in God and discount and make fun of those who profess their faith not have to explain their views. Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERBIE1 Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 Why whenever the topic of faith or religious views is brought up are those who profess their faith forced to explain their faith beliefs yet those who do not believe in God and discount and make fun of those who profess their faith not have to explain their views. Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk Someone can be against DADT and have problems with homosexuality for all kinds of reasons. I submit that the least reasoned(but probably no less strong ) opinion is one based on religion. No logic is necessary, no real defense needs to be mounted- it's simply a matter of faith. Throw in a few bible quotes and the religious feel they have an iron clad defense of their position. I part company with that idea, but I also do not make fun of them. I look at homosexuality as simply a departure in someone's normal development. You can CHOOSE to engage in homosexual behavior, but that is also not the same thing as being born gay. In human development, mistakes happen. People are born with congenital diseases, malformations, birth defects, CP, and a host of other issues. These are also NOT "normal" conditions. Some conditions have a profound impact on someone's life, while others are nothing more than a minor inconvenience. People can CHOOSE to live alone, they can CHOOSE to live with someone without being married, they can CHOOSE to live with family, and they can CHOOSE to live with someone as their partner-same sex or opposite sex. Throughout time however, marriage has ALWAYS been defined as between a man and a woman. ALWAYS. That concept crosses all ethnic and racial boundaries, and is also not necessarily religious based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akflightmedic Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 People can CHOOSE to live alone, they can CHOOSE to live with someone without being married, they can CHOOSE to live with family, and they can CHOOSE to live with someone as their partner-same sex or opposite sex. Throughout time however, marriage has ALWAYS been defined as between a man and a woman. ALWAYS. That concept crosses all ethnic and racial boundaries, and is also not necessarily religious based. I ask you to search well documented same-sex MARRIAGES which occurred throughout certain ancient periods of European history, Greece, Rome and several parts of China. The historical data is there and these same-sex unions were taking place right around the same time the definition of marriage was being created. It was not until later on that the Church started imposing their way upon the people and then those same wills were passed onto the legal system when the legal system actually started caring about this sort of thing because prior to this, a marriage was an entirely private ceremony with little oversight or regulation. So anyways....I counter your claim that this was "ALWAYS" the definition. "Marriage is the union of two different surnames, in friendship and in love, in order to continue the posterity of the former sages, and to furnish those who shall preside at the sacrifices to heaven and earth, at those in the ancestral temple, and at those at the altars to the spirits of the land and grain" —Confucius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERBIE1 Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 I ask you to search well documented same-sex MARRIAGES which occurred throughout certain ancient periods of European history, Greece, Rome and several parts of China. The historical data is there and these same-sex unions were taking place right around the same time the definition of marriage was being created. It was not until later on that the Church started imposing their way upon the people and then those same wills were passed onto the legal system when the legal system actually started caring about this sort of thing because prior to this, a marriage was an entirely private ceremony with little oversight or regulation. So anyways....I counter your claim that this was "ALWAYS" the definition. "Marriage is the union of two different surnames, in friendship and in love, in order to continue the posterity of the former sages, and to furnish those who shall preside at the sacrifices to heaven and earth, at those in the ancestral temple, and at those at the altars to the spirits of the land and grain" —Confucius Folks in history also thought the gods were punishing people every time an eclipse occurred. Folks in ancient cultures also thought if they sacrificed women and infants, it would please their god and bring them good fortune and a good harvest. Before this generation, I submit that if you asked someone how they would define a marriage, you would be met with some strange looks. Whatever. Men and women, men and men, women and dolphins- let's just completely abolish the notion of marriage. Want to "marry" your best friend? Go for it. Before I got married(to a woman), I had a room mate for 8 years. We could have saved big bucks on taxes and benefits by making it a "civil union". Just because something is legal does not make it a good idea. When did so many societal conventions become bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akflightmedic Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 When did so many societal conventions become bad? When we progressed enough as a civilization and refined our skills of logic and realized our societal conventions are discriminatory and based on many of those ancient thought processes which you mentioned. Also when people realized it was ok to have a voice of dissent outside or separate from the church without fear of death or banishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eydawn Posted December 27, 2010 Author Share Posted December 27, 2010 Herbie-- Just for the sake of argument, consider this position... Human sexuality is one of our most basic and strongest drives. It comprises a huge portion of our psychological being. You, as a heterosexual individual, can bring to fruition your sexual desires in a fashion that is encouraged and supported by society and current tradition. Let's flip this for a moment; imagine that homosexual relationships are the *only* approved sexual relationship, and you have been born hetero. Could you decide to only engage in homosexual relationships, even though you feel no sexual drive towards the same gender? Could you decide to live a life of celibacy in order to conform with someone's idea of proper society? Would that be psychologically healthy for you, and would you be able to live a happy life? I want you to really sit there and really think about this. Very hard. Imagine yourself in this exact situation. How does that idea sit with you? Because that's exactly the situation that anyone of homosexual orientation is in. Imagine everyone getting in your business and calling you a malfunction, damaged goods, should just be able to CHOOSE not to have sex with the opposite gender because it's just plain wrong... imagine facing discrimination because you want to marry the person you love and wanting to start a family... fear for your job, fear that people will beat the hell out of you just for being born the way you are... Not so easy as being in the majority and secure in your position... Wendy CO EMT-B 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERDoc Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 How does someone chose to be gay? That really doesn't make any sense. Why would someone chose to be gay knowing how they were going to be treated and ostracized by society? They are not defective or a mutation as has been suggested, any more than someone who has red hair or who is short. I heard an interesting opinion once that I have no source to quote, just something I heard along the way. Anyone who is homosexual is actually a more evolved being. The basic reason for sex was procreation and survival of the species. Obviously, homosexuals cannot reproduce with one another. They have evolved to see sex as a method of self-enjoyment and not just a way to reproduce. They have evolved beyond needing sex for carrying on the species. Don't know if I agree with it, but it sure is an interesting thought, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPINFV Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 I do not have a good philosophical answer to that. The Bible says, "thou shall not kill", then mentions wars in the names of religion. The practical interpretation of that passage, as well as some literal translations, would read "Thou shall not murder." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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