MVC's on the interstate

[HERBIE1]

There is a clear line of demarcation in the training and education continuum amongst EMS providers, which pops up every so often. It usually involves the "would you stop?" discussions.

What are you suggesting? The higher the training, the less likely someone would be to stop, or vice versa?

[Just Plain Ruff]

What are you suggesting? The higher the training, the less likely someone would be to stop, or vice versa?

I think it directly correlates with the maturity of those who stop.

The majority of those I've known to stop have been those either in paramedic or EMT classes or a brand new EMT/Medic who has the delusions of grandeur and fame that stop.

I think that those of us who stop won't stop at any old accident. But those who are very new to the field who have a "I can fix anything because I'm an EMT or Medic" mentality that stop and sometimes do the worst good.

Am I speaking in generalities, I think that if those of you who take offense at my generalizations take a step back, you would see that I'm right or at least partially right.

I have many friends who have been in EMS for over 10 - 20 years and none of them would stop or if they did they would have to witness the accident.

I have many friends who would not even stop in their jurisdiction.

[+medic]

I think it directly correlates with the maturity of those who stop.

The majority of those I've known to stop have been those either in paramedic or EMT classes or a brand new EMT/Medic who has the delusions of grandeur and fame that stop.

I think that those of us who stop won't stop at any old accident. But those who are very new to the field who have a "I can fix anything because I'm an EMT or Medic" mentality that stop and sometimes do the worst good.

Am I speaking in generalities, I think that if those of you who take offense at my generalizations take a step back, you would see that I'm right or at least partially right.

I have many friends who have been in EMS for over 10 - 20 years and none of them would stop or if they did they would have to witness the accident.

I have many friends who would not even stop in their jurisdiction.

I can see your point and agree with it somewhat because you make a good point. From living in other countries the last six years I have found that in Japan passer bys will stop and render any aid they can includeing helping the ambulnace with the patient. In Germany they will stop but have a misguided tendency to want to pull the person from the car. In England they will stop and help most of the time untill the NHS or Fire Brigade shows up.

As for me I only stop if I witness it happen or no other emergency serivce is there. Once someone with higher authority (Fire/EMS) shows up I leave unless requested to stay by the police or who ever. I dont stop at every fender bender but if it looks serrious I will stop and render whatever aid I can.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Ok, what about stopping at accidents outside your state of licensure?

Do you stop at accidents and render aid in states you are not licensed in?

What happens when you do something that the Good samaritan law does not cover?

A question to the smarter people on this thread than I.

Once I stop at a accident and say I'm a paramedic, am I no longer covered by the Good Sam laws? If you are in your state of licensure and you identify yourself as a paramedic and where you work what liability do you open yourself up to?

What happens when you pull up on a wreck and you pull out your medical pack that you have in your car. Are you now no longer considered to be a good samaritan and are you open to liability?

What about stopping in your coverage area and you pull a medical pack and begin to treat by starting an IV or putting oxygen on?

Just what kind of liability are you opening yourself up to?

[fiznat]

Once I stop at a accident and say I'm a paramedic, am I no longer covered by the Good Sam laws?

It is really going to depend on your state, and even then your personal result could vary widely. I know for a fact that American Medical Response has lobbied (successfully in a lot of places) that the "good samaritan law" should be applied to their employees on the job in order to reduce liability. The law on the books is open to interpretation and a subjective jury decision, which a lot of times makes things much less black and white. You might be fine, you might get hammered. Another reason to never stop.

That said,

What about stopping in your coverage area and you pull a medical pack and begin to treat by starting an IV or putting oxygen on?

Just what kind of liability are you opening yourself up to?

This seems like a bad idea to me. There are probably places and situations where you would get away with it, but it seems like a lot of risk for very questionable benefit. I doubt that a lone IV or even supplemental O2 will make any difference whatsoever, and honestly if I were the medic responding to a call where some off duty douche started an IV because he felt like it, I would never ever actually use that IV unless the world was coming to an end (IE not gonna happen).

[maverick56]

Ok, what about stopping at accidents outside your state of licensure?

Do you stop at accidents and render aid in states you are not licensed in?

What happens when you do something that the Good samaritan law does not cover?

A question to the smarter people on this thread than I.

Once I stop at a accident and say I'm a paramedic, am I no longer covered by the Good Sam laws? If you are in your state of licensure and you identify yourself as a paramedic and where you work what liability do you open yourself up to?

What happens when you pull up on a wreck and you pull out your medical pack that you have in your car. Are you now no longer considered to be a good samaritan and are you open to liability?

What about stopping in your coverage area and you pull a medical pack and begin to treat by starting an IV or putting oxygen on?

Just what kind of liability are you opening yourself up to?

I wouldn't ever state that I am a paramedic. That's just setting yourself up for trouble. No IVs, nothing fancy unless you're in your jurisdiction and in contact with en route responders or med control. At least that's how would handle it. Don't create a duty to act where one doesn't exist.

As for out of state, I'd have to witness it and even then, only under the right circumstances, i.e. someone will die if I don't or we're out in the boonies. And then, I'm playing it safe and low-key and not offering up voluntary information.

edit: added info

Edited June 7, 2010 by maverick56

[Chief1C]

Actually, we don't have any line of duty death benefits.

Really?

Huh.. Even if the service didn't carry any, I keep separate insurance just in case I get mowed down, shot, get an infx, etc.. to cause death... in the line of duty. I believe I also have something for being a member of NAEMT.

[Just Plain Ruff]

I wouldn't ever state that I am a paramedic. That's just setting yourself up for trouble. No IVs, nothing fancy unless you're in your jurisdiction and in contact with en route responders or med control. At least that's how would handle it. Don't create a duty to act where one doesn't exist.

As for out of state, I'd have to witness it and even then, only under the right circumstances, i.e. someone will die if I don't or we're out in the boonies. And then, I'm playing it safe and low-key and not offering up voluntary information.

edit: added info

What if they ask? What if they say, how'd you know how to do all that?

Most providers I know can't resist saying "I'm a paramedic" it's what they are ingrained to do.

[maverick56]

What if they ask? What if they say, how'd you know how to do all that?

Most providers I know can't resist saying "I'm a paramedic" it's what they are ingrained to do.

Hahaha, you know Ruff, I don't have a good answer for that one. I've never run into that situation. My medic instructor once told a story about being at a high school track meet and a girl passing out in the heat, showing all the signs of heat stroke. Beat red, dry, shallow breathing. He sat on his hands for a minute, but couldn't watch the idiots do everything wrong, so he climbed down the bleachers, grabbed a towel and water cooler from a nearby bench and got things started. As far as anyone knew, he was "John", a concerned parent spectator, and as soon as someone claiming to be a doctor walked up, he faded away. Never gave his real name, never volunteered information, and got out of there as soon as possible knowing the girl was stable and help was on the way.

[scott33]

What are you suggesting? The higher the training, the less likely someone would be to stop, or vice versa?

I hate to generalize, but having had many conversations, and read many threads on many forums, along the line of "would you stop" - there does seem to be a common theme wherein the lower end providers are the ones who would be first to stop at the more risky calls (MVC at night on a highway with no vehicle markings). Like many things in EMS, a lot of it has to do with location, and who could be faulted for pulling over in the more remote areas to render aid if it is safe to do so, even if it is just to make a phone call. However, as already been pointed out, even the most experienced provider is limited in what they can do at the roadside, and if mechanism is significant, anything other than sitting holding c-spine is usually going to be the wrong course of treatment.

There is a perfectly valid reason why most doctors do not have MD plates.