Thoughts and ideas about existence.

[Just Plain Ruff]

I fail to see where he disallowed dieties in the discussion, he simply asked that you back it up with a rational argument that didn't include 'because it just is.' Which you've failed to do.

Then you should have shown him the respect to have played by his rules, right?

And you rarely pass up an opportunity to make that point. I don't follow your beliefs brother, but I have respect for them. Unfortunately those that follow your beliefs, as here, often fail to show respect to those of other opinions. He didn't disallow your point of view, simply asked that you back it with logical, intelligent discussion as well. I for one would love to see you attempt to do so.

Interesting discussion so far, by a bunch of interesting people. Thanks for the idea Matty! I'm still trying to find a point of view to argue... :-)

Dwayne

Well Dwayne, I believe what I believe. I believe that God is real.

I hope that you put the same emphasis on someone who believes in Allah. He's a god yet you can't see him. I would hope that you would hold the person who says they believe in Allah to the same microscope as you hold me and any other Christian.

I have apologized in the past for some remarks I have made and I have tried to temper my thoughts with lesser negativity.

But that's just that with religion. It's a belief system. I believe that history has proven many aspects of the bible. I believe it will prove more in the future. Archeologists have proven many things that have happened in the bible yet that proof is still being discounted by those who don't believe.

I take my belief in God at face value, I believe that he is real and I have no "proof" other than what was written in the Bible. If that makes my religion unbelievable then sorry about that. The bible to me is the inherrent word of God and that's not debatable with me.

Just like the Koran or the Quran is the basis of those religions belief system.

I respect your opinions, I do not agree with you on your belief and I'm still praying for ya bro. I hope that's ok.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Well Dwayne, I believe what I believe. I believe that God is real.

I hope that you put the same emphasis on someone who believes in Allah. He's a god yet you can't see him. I would hope that you would hold the person who says they believe in Allah to the same microscope as you hold me and any other Christian.

I have apologized in the past for some remarks I have made and I have tried to temper my thoughts with lesser negativity.

But that's just that with religion. It's a belief system. I believe that history has proven many aspects of the bible. I believe it will prove more in the future. Archeologists have proven many things that have happened in the bible yet that proof is still being discounted by those who don't believe.

I take my belief in God at face value, I believe that he is real and I have no "proof" other than what was written in the Bible. If that makes my religion unbelievable then sorry about that. The bible to me is the inherrent word of God and that's not debatable with me.

Just like the Koran or the Quran is the basis of those religions belief system.

I respect your opinions, I do not agree with you on your belief and I'm still praying for ya bro. I hope that's ok.

The other thing I wanted to respond to was that I believe I gave a rational answer in the first post. Dwayne, you apparantly do not think I did.

Let me put the ball on the other foot, what is your rational argument for your belief system? I'd love to hear it. If you wish to take this to PM's then thats fine too.

[DwayneEMTP]

Well Dwayne, I believe what I believe. I believe that God is real.

I hope that you put the same emphasis on someone who believes in Allah. He's a god yet you can't see him. I would hope that you would hold the person who says they believe in Allah to the same microscope as you hold me and any other Christian.

I have apologized in the past for some remarks I have made and I have tried to temper my thoughts with lesser negativity.

But that's just that with religion. It's a belief system. I believe that history has proven many aspects of the bible. I believe it will prove more in the future. Archeologists have proven many things that have happened in the bible yet that proof is still being discounted by those who don't believe.

I take my belief in God at face value, I believe that he is real and I have no "proof" other than what was written in the Bible. If that makes my religion unbelievable then sorry about that. The bible to me is the inherrent word of God and that's not debatable with me.

Just like the Koran or the Quran is the basis of those religions belief system.

I respect your opinions, I do not agree with you on your belief and I'm still praying for ya bro. I hope that's ok.

For the life of me I can't figure out how you've managed to turn my comments into an assault on your religion??

I've never judged your religion other than to say that I don't share your Christian beliefs. I don't really see that as an attack. If I say that I love to have sex hanging from the rafters while while being spanked with a goth Barbie and pelted with eggs from the local midget wrestling club, and you reply that you don't, does that then imply that you don't share any other principles that I might have, and that you devalue me as a human? We can't then talk about evolution, cellular biology, our hopes and dreams for the future? (I hope not. Because midgets don't come cheap man....)

Step back from the pulpit brother, no one is attacking you here. I was simply commenting on the way you chose to approach your love of your religion in this topic. I think it was a bit sideways.

And I'd be more than happy to share my theories on life. Belief is too strong a word as I don't have a concrete belief system. I can't point to a book, or group of books and claim that they represent my thoughts, but have just a bunch of thoughts and feelings. I didn't believe that that type of exploration was what Matty was looking for in his thread. I'm not afraid to share them with you, there is nothing sacred or holy in my beliefs, nothing special about them at all likely, but they're certainly not secret.

Dwayne

[Kiwiology]

Life is an experience. It is up to us what we make of it. Some interesting people to be met and unique things to be experienced along the way thats for damn sure.

[Just Plain Ruff]

For the life of me I can't figure out how you've managed to turn my comments into an assault on your religion??

I've never judged your religion other than to say that I don't share your Christian beliefs. I don't really see that as an attack. If I say that I love to have sex hanging from the rafters while while being spanked with a goth Barbie and pelted with eggs from the local midget wrestling club, and you reply that you don't, does that then imply that you don't share any other principles that I might have, and that you devalue me as a human? We can't then talk about evolution, cellular biology, our hopes and dreams for the future? (I hope not. Because midgets don't come cheap man....)

Step back from the pulpit brother, no one is attacking you here. I was simply commenting on the way you chose to approach your love of your religion in this topic. I think it was a bit sideways.

And I'd be more than happy to share my theories on life. Belief is too strong a word as I don't have a concrete belief system. I can't point to a book, or group of books and claim that they represent my thoughts, but have just a bunch of thoughts and feelings. I didn't believe that that type of exploration was what Matty was looking for in his thread. I'm not afraid to share them with you, there is nothing sacred or holy in my beliefs, nothing special about them at all likely, but they're certainly not secret.

Dwayne

Dwayne, we've taken this to Pm's. Let's not muddy the waters by our discussion. It's fruitful to say the least. Let's let this thread get back to it's original intention, not the two of us discussing our thoughts.

Peace

If I say that I love to have sex hanging from the rafters while while being spanked with a goth Barbie and pelted with eggs from the local midget wrestling club, and you reply that you don't, does that then imply that you don't share any other principles that I might have, and that you devalue me as a human? We can't then talk about evolution, cellular biology, our hopes and dreams for the future? (I hope not. Because midgets don't come cheap man....)

Dwayne, then why are you sending me video of you on the rafters. Barbie is lodging a complaint with the action figure justice league.

I do apologize for taking the original post out of context, that was not my intent.

[Mateo_1387]

Hmm, quite interesting thus far.

From existence to global warming, quite a derailment. I understand though it went that direction to try and back up the original discussion.

The most difficult part of this discussion about existence is that there does not seem to be an absolutely right answer. That is why I put the question out here on the city, to see what others say. I knew you guys could put a spin on the question and provide some insight to my questioning of existence. Thanks !

I am going to wait just a little bit longer to reply. I want to see if anyone else cares to add their logic. Plus waiting will give the Monday and Tuesday slackers a chance to see this thread a reply to it, hopefully before it gets too far away from the original question.

Matt

[Just Plain Ruff]

We are not here to merely make a living. We are here to enrich the world, and we impoverish ourselves if we forget this errand. ~ Woodrow Wilson

To start out with, I have no clue if this is a quote by Woodrow Wilson, and I frankly do not care. The content of the quote is what should be discussed. The quote gives a reason for existence, to enrich the world. In my meek world, I question quotes like this, but more importantly, the meaning of existence.

So, the question to be discussed, what is the purpose or meaning of our existence?

This thread is purely an exercise of mental masturbation. I think it would be an interesting discussion topic. I hope others concur.

To start off with, I want to say this without stepping on everyones toes. One answer I do not accept personally for this question is the religious view. This is not to stop those who are religious from joining in on the conversation, but, I ask that we do not simply say in so many words 'we exist for God'. Follow the religious answers up with something of great sustenance. I am willing to explore the area of religion as it applies to this discussion, but, I hope too many do not get pissed off with where it may go. See what I am saying?

Matt.

I'll take the God part out of this.

I am here so I can make a difference. I have done so in so many ways.

From my children and raising them to be good kids, to know right from wrong and to do the right things, not always cause that will never happen, but to consistently look at their actions and the consequences that happen from any action, be it good, bad or ugly.

I am here to be freinds to people who I am friends with, to love those I love and to tolerate or try to see the viewpoints of others.

I am here not to make the world a better place because damnit, you can only make your part of the world a better place, not the entire world.

I am here to provide the knowledge I have to those who need that knowledge. To teach the teachable but to listen to those who know a lot more than I do.

I am here to use my medical skills to help people.

The quote gives a reason for existence, to enrich the world - How have I enriched the World? I don't think I have enriched the WORLD? How can we be so arrogant to say "I have enriched the world?" I don't think we can ever say that. As a collective people in this world, sure the world is enriched because we were here but to be so high and mighty to say "I" enriched the world, that's hogwash.

I have enriched my tiny tiny little part of my own world. I have enriched it by the friendships I have and had, by the people I know and who know me.

I have enriched the world by meeting people on the internet who do not share my core belief systems and I do not share theirs yet civility ensues and discussion are had and our understanding grow and grows.

My legacy I hope is that I leave my little part of the world a better place, an enriched place. Be that from helping a sick person or just having someone know that I was there for them. My desire is to leave a legacy that can stand the test of time, one that continues and blossoms into a change or betterment of a little larger area than what I was a part of.

Have I done this? I don't have a clue, maybe, maybe not. I do know that I do have a legacy and it is my children. May they follow the advice and mistakes that I have made and take the advice and the knowledge of my mistakes and use them to construct their lives in a way that they too make a difference.

Can I say this with certainty that I have done this, nope. I hope I have.

I hope that one day after I have died, that someone can say, It's good he was here, my life/world/environment is a little better off because of him.

That would be the legacy I would like to leave.

So the answer to the question (what was the question again?) is this - IF I enrich the world just a smidgen and I hope I have, then my purpose on the earth was fruitful and enriching.

a long winded answer to the question.

[emtannie]

I'm sure the link from the UN will be popular.

Thanks for the links – I looked through them, and had trouble finding the scientific studies that they were based on. The UN link did not work, nor did the biodiversity one (the last one) but I will assume that they were more graphs without the study literature.

I tried to cut and past the UN link into a new window, and just go to the UN.org site, but it would not let me into the news articles/press releases either.

However, when I googled it, I got this hit:

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/01/28/save-rainforest-climate-change-scandal-chopped-facts/

It would appear that the UN is basing their stance on some flawed science.

OK, Matt – I will quit derailing your thread (but can I have Dwayne’s goth Barbie?)

There are those who may feel that a belief in God, and God being the reason we are here is not a valid argument. Although there may not be peer-reviewed scientific studies to show that God exists (sorry, didn't google that one), and is the reason for our being, I prefer to think that the belief in God can be meshed with the evolution theory. There are so many things that have happened in the evolution of man and earth, that cannot be specifically scientifically explained. It reminds me of the Far Side cartoon of the scientist with the blackboard full of chemistry calculations, and in the middle it says "an a miracle occurs" and then he continues rto his final answer.

So, while we are here, regardless of why we think we are here, so far that majority of posters have agreed on one thinng - we should be doing what we can to make someone's life better.

Dang - now I am late for work....

[Richard B the EMT]

Global warming is a theory in the same respect that gravity is "just a theory."

Gravity is supposed to be a law. If that is the case, how did people keep their feet on the ground before the law was passed? (LOL)

As for God, there is always the cartoon of a little kid saying, "God ain't done with me yet, and he don't make junk!"

Admittedly flippant, I agree.

If religion wants pain and suffering, why did God allow the creation of healers, "witchdoctors", medical doctors, and most recently, EMTs and Paramedics to combat pain, suffering, and death? Are we somehow against God in doing what we do?

[chbare]

Gravity is better described as a fundamental interaction or force. Many theories exist to explain gravity, with relativity being the best currently available theory IMHO. Unfortunately, we do not have a very clear picture describing what makes gravity tick unlike the three other forces. Perhaps it is more accurate to say we do not have a set of methods that we can utilise to calculate fundamental gravity interactions (EDIT: basically a theory that explains how a force carrying particle known as a Boson ticks. Obviously, an exact calculation is not possible. I think this is in part because of the uncertanty principle.) and we have yet to directly detect the force carrying particle and fit it into the standard model that represents gravity.

However, comparing gravity to global warming is an inane exercise IMHO.

Take care,

chbare.

EDIT for clarification

Edited May 25, 2010 by chbare