emtannie Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Thank you Dust, for reminding me why I don't spend nearly as much time at this site as I used to. I find it interesting that some members on this site tout it to be such a wonderful place for learning, and discussion, and sharing of ideas, and yet when asked for their input on an issue or situation, their response is to be sarcastic and obtuse. I get frustrated when I see people who are trying to post facts and discussion get posts which are completely negative and not condusive to further discussion. I get frustrated when I see threads which are started for the sole purpose of pointing fingers but not trying to improve EMS. I get frustrated when threads which start out as educational get hijacked by those that refuse to provide quality input. Why point out the failings of a service but then not be a part of the discussion to try to figure out what can be done to work that situation out? Why not be supportive of those members (who, by the way, many of them DO have university degrees - do not judge those you do not know). Why not discuss ways that members can work with the current situation and try to make changes? OMG - that would be constructive dialogue.... can't have that.... it is sooo much easier to sit and point fingers at everyone else... What are YOU doing to improve EMS? Are you working as an instructor, to educate the next generation of medics? Are you educating the public, so they realize we are not just ambulance drivers? Are you maintaining your own skills and certifications? Are you mentoring new medics? (and no, chat doesn't count as mentoring) It is easy to be the one who sits back and points fingers at services that are having issues.... it is a far harder thing to try to make a difference and make EMS a profession, not just "labour." It is easy to say that the union is the problem, or the government is the problem or education is the problem, or financial constraints are the problem - that isn't rocket science.... it is far harder to come up with a viable solution to the current situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustdevil Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) I find it interesting that some members on this site tout it to be such a wonderful place for learning, and discussion, and sharing of ideas, and yet when asked for their input on an issue or situation, their response is to be sarcastic and obtuse. I get frustrated when I see people who are trying to post facts and discussion get posts which are completely negative and not condusive to further discussion. My response was neither sarcastic nor obtuse. It was honest. I admitted to you that I had no solutions to this situation, and that I lacked the personal motivation to give it much thought. Would you prefer that I BS you and act as if I had some answers? Blowing smoke is not my idea of intelligent discussion, and I won't insult the forum's intelligence with that just to put on a front as if I really know something that I clearly do not. I do not expect professional labour negotiators to practise medicine, and no one with a lick of sense should expect me to know a thing about labour negotiating. I get frustrated when threads which start out as educational get hijacked by those that refuse to provide quality input. Okay, let me get this straight. You're going to jack this thread to rant against threadjacking? Pot, meet kettle! Everything I have discussed to this point was directly related to the subject of the thread. Just because I'm not giving you the answers you personally want to hear doesn't exactly mean the thread has been jacked, or is not productive. Why point out the failings of a service but then not be a part of the discussion to try to figure out what can be done to work that situation out? First of all, I did not point out anything about the service, positive or negative. This thread isn't about the service. It's not even about the providers. It is about a labour dispute, plain and simple. And second, aren't you being more than a little unrealistic in your expectations of me? Do you expect the news media to solve every problem they report? Why would you expect me to have any involvement whatsoever in a foreign labour dispute that I report to the forum, much less solve it? I really don't understand what your point is here. Why not be supportive of those members (who, by the way, many of them DO have university degrees - do not judge those you do not know). Why not discuss ways that members can work with the current situation and try to make changes? Because it's too late. Their cause is already lost. That was the point of the article. EDIT: At first, I didn't understand what you were getting at with the bit about degrees. I guess you thought I was asserting some sort of superiority because I have a university degree. If so, I apologise for that misunderstanding. My point was that those who achieve a professional degree cheapen that achievement by labelling themselves as nothing more than common labourers. Again, I have said nothing to denigrate BCAS or their personnel. All I have said is that their strike was obviously ill-conceived from the beginning, and has to this point failed miserably. What are YOU doing to improve EMS? Read much? What does my occupation say there under my name? RETIRED! I gave all I had to this gong show for thirty-five years. I'm done with licences and certifications. But I've still attended four multi-day educational conferences in the last six months, at my own expense, and have two more scheduled for July. That's a lot more than most working medics with two good legs, and I suspect more than you. When you're sitting on your fat arse in a wheelchair after over three decades of service, through three wars, you can sit in judgement of my commitment to the profession. Until then, you have not earned that privilege, so STFU. Edited June 7, 2009 by Dustdevil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tniuqs Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) I have been watching this post and am honestly dismayed by some of the posts due lack of intelligent input and the bigger picture, so lets do some REAL investigation FIRST let us dissect this as one would in bugs class ... just for fun shall we ? The Horse is just out of the Barn but the REAL RACE has just begin This IS BC after all in all its beauty eh and like it or not Unions run this province and tell me it isn't so and I will LMFAO. If you have to remind the public that you've been on strike for two months, your strike is teh FAIL! Sorry not even CLOSE minus 5 dust man. Everyone in BC is aware and watching closely as is ALL of Alberta Paramedics because we too have been "declared essential service" (as of this April) Honestly, I would head the words of the BC guys posting and will walk with them on my holidays in "Bring Cash" with a big ass sign saying Alberta Medics Support our Brothers and Sisters . The entire EMS from sea to shineing sea is watching and very damn close. Hell, this dispute in BC labour is as fresh as a iris in spring just look to BC ferries unions who have a strangle hold on this province AND make more money parking cars and trucks on a boat. Anti Union/ Association and one will continue to fragment all EMS workers as it happens in Texas .. OUCH EH. (um and no "i" in Canada there Dust) minus 1 for spelling. te he. But because they've been declared an essential service, there's little the paramedics can do to drive home their contract demands, or bring pressure for arbitration. Bremer voiced frustration with the Labor Relations Board. If one is not assosiated with a Union when the Government is ones employer and one would be SOL even being hired to start with and then jumping through BCAS hoops .. so I take a position PRO Union in this environment, different values and different part of the World. Just look to OZ and how successful they are to promoting their Ambulance Officers, advanced education as in Charles Stuart (OZ is a world Leader but No one bothers to look across the Pond) heck we could be so lucky in Canada. We still have some rights in Canada to associate and organize Labour and as important to us as in the US as the right to carry a firearm, just a point and not a means to go off on a tangent. Sooo the Writer of this New's commentary from a rather remote article and COURIER-ISLANDER a very small local publication to start with in passing. Dan MacLennan: very interesting indeed "Buff" as he was called is originally from Alberta and affiliations with NDP and AUPE ... this link to his departure of AUPE could he BUFF have intentions to point out CUPE and its strategies are flawed ? hmmm ? http://www.aupe.org/in_the_news/news.php?id=513 Since then "Buff" has gone on to marketing promoting "immigrate/ cheap labours" from other countries to work in the Oilpatch in AB ... I am highly suspect to his intentions, as he changes his hat to support his own pocketbook these days, take what he says with a grain of salt. Frustrated local paramedics took their information pickets to the Campbell River Hospital Tuesday as their strike dragged past the two-month mark with no end in sight. As fresh as an Iris in Spring (again) "As paramedics, we don't want to shut down ambulances. We don't want to impact the public and not respond to calls. We enjoy helping people. We're just at the point where we are frustrated this has been dragging on for two months with no sign at all of it ending in the near future." Political pressure ... very clear intent as to not to harm the public good ... Kudos. The last collective agreement between the BC Ambulance Service (BCAS) and the union representing paramedics and dispatchers expired at midnight, March 31. S.O.P, no different than MANY other essential services Contracts and a standard Government ploy. "If we are phoned on our days off, we are required by the Essential Service Act to go to work if a manager phones us. We think it's ridiculous that someone on their days off could be forced to go to work. That's totally unfair. Paramedics, like everyone else, deserve days off. FACT: Due to this Strike Action "would you believe" that there are more trucks on the road than normal daily operations the Goverment in BC is shooting themselves in the wallet (again) dumb, dumb, dumb ... did I say dumb? CUPE should expose that little issue to the Taxpayers/ Voters maybe ? "They've tied our hands so badly that the only thing we can do with our strike action is not scan our paperwork," he said. "It feels like a pillow fight that we're in right now. We're not able to do anything. Wrong ... just like Osama Bin Ladin's strategy... hit them in the pocketbook/billing/ finances when the "pillow" has the money in it, and it sure hurts when getting it in the face if one swings it hard enough. "We are on the scene all the time with the RCMP, fire departments, and we deserve the same rate of pay that they're getting," Bremer said earlier. The paramedics want a return to wage parity with Vancouver City Police. Please insert Hose Monkeys for completeness shall we ? (btw no integrated service in BCAS that I know of) hey now there is a good idea ... I wish some others would go this route too. Their strike motto is 'same scene, same pay'. I LOVE IT ..... because its the truth. They say they're the lowest paid emergency service workers in the province. In the last seven years we've had a two per cent raise. The nurses just signed a three-year deal for 10.5 per cent. The full-time fire fighters signed a three deal for 13.5 per cent. We want long-term stability in our contract and we want our wages brought up to a fair wage. They are ... just ask yourself (everyone) is this not akin to Slavery ? One could always reconsider ones options and invest in BC's bud booming business (aka BBBB) thats where BC is a World Leader and because that is FAR more lucrative and no taxes .... just saying. cheers Edited June 7, 2009 by tniuqs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happiness Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) Well Annie you did hit a core since you got the STFU comment. When you are deemed an insential service you only have limited strike actions that are not going comprimise patient care and that is the long and the short of it. It was not poor planning that is making this a long dragged out issue it is the fact that the government has us by the short and curly's. Now to tell you the truth I am not a raving union person but I do support those who are. I believe that if you are a first responder no matter if that is fire, RCMP, or paramedic, it you are on the same scenes and under the same stress then the pay should be equal. I am a part timer and when my pager goes off because of BC Labour laws not the union I get paid for 4 hours even if I work for one. Now that sounds good to most but if I only get one call in a pay period that really isn't much but oh ya I get 2 bucks an hr for holding my beepy thing. When you live in the city and work full time you get paid by the hr and in this day and age it isn't alot, oh ya they dont get the extra 2 bucks. There are safty issues and others that are not really reported on because they dont sell the papers. I bet some people actualy think that we wont show up to their emergency because of what is said in the media. Now to Dust, My response was neither sarcastic nor obtuse. It was honest. I admitted to you that I had no solutions to this situation, and that I lacked the personal motivation to give it much thought. Would you prefer that I BS you and act as if I had some answers? Blowing smoke is not my idea of intelligent discussion, and I won't insult the forum's intelligence with that just to put on a front as if I really know something that I clearly do not. I do not expect professional labour negotiators to practise medicine, and no one with a lick of sense should expect me to know a thing about labour negotiating. First of all you never started this thread to have any sort of intelliget conversation, you did it to be sarcastic. Because it's too late. Their cause is already lost. That was the point of the article. EDIT: At first, I didn't understand what you were getting at with the bit about degrees. I guess you thought I was asserting some sort of superiority because I have a university degree. If so, I apologise for that misunderstanding. My point was that those who achieve a professional degree cheapen that achievement by labelling themselves as nothing more than common labourers. Again, I have said nothing to denigrate BCAS or their personnel. All I have said is that their strike was obviously ill-conceived from the beginning, and has to this point failed miserably It is never to late and people with your attitude is the reason things do fail. "Never Give Up" Im realy glad that you edited your statement on the university degree because you are no better than annie or myself just because you went to university. I also went to a university it was called the school of experience and I got in there by graduating from the school of hard knocks. I am just as intelligent as you and in some ways more but on the other side of the coin I can say the same thing about you, you are more intelligent than I am in some things. Read much? What does my occupation say there under my name? RETIRED! I gave all I had to this gong show for thirty-five years. I'm done with licences and certifications. But I've still attended four multi-day educational conferences in the last six months, at my own expense, and have two more scheduled for July. That's a lot more than most working medics with two good legs, and I suspect more than you. When you're sitting on your fat arse in a wheelchair after over three decades of service, through three wars, you can sit in judgement of my commitment to the profession. Until then, you have not earned that privilege, so STFU So one question I have about the above is Why are you still doing the education when you should be out golfing. Oh ya I bet its because you just cant leave this gong show and you have a desire to learn. So you say that because you put in 35 years of service and went through 3 wars that gives you the right to judge, sorry Dust it dosnt. You really do have alot of good points at times and Im sure you have the ability to let otheres know your knowledge but you have to learn how to deliver it without the spars attached. In closing Dust you really do care about issues because if you didn't first you start threads and second you wouldn't respond to our posts. You really do remind me of the Grinch and we all know the ending to that story. Edited June 7, 2009 by Happiness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emtannie Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Hey Squint! About time you got here! Thanks for your research – I didn’t know what Dan’s background is. I will be watching to see if he posts any more articles (especially after the long-winded email I sent him and his editor…. Lol) Happi, thanks for your response – you are far more well-spoken and polite than I am. I had typed a long response which included “I am all out of hero cookies and don't play the martyr with me” but I read your response which is much nicer… LOL…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERBIE1 Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Well, after being on both sides of the labor/management issue, I think I am qualified to make a couple observations. First, I will not debate the specifics of the issues- it's not my fight, but I will always advocate for more money. Too many in this profession make a pittance, compared to what their job responsibilities are. The problem with any job action is you need to know what is at stake BEFORE you make a move. If there has been no movement in 2 months on this, then clearly the providers are not in a very strong bargaining position. In a nutshell, I think the providers need to reassess their goals or they can very easily need to find a new career. Strikes may be necessary in some cases, but there are very real consequences. The hard feelings, animosity, distrust, and angst never really go away and do a great deal of harm to the organizations involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diazepam618 Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 The STFU doesn't mean anything on this site, and if you don't like the current wages wherever you work then GET OUT, plan and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medicmole Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 if you don't like the current wages wherever you work then GET OUT, plan and simple. Why didn't we think of that? Maybe if all 3500 BCAS Paramedics quit that would put some pressure on the employer. Or we could work to make things better instead of running away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happiness Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Okay there is one other important factor in this strike action lasting for 2 months. We also had a provincial election in the past few months and because of that there is no negotiations for anyone, anywhere, With the possibility of a new government the one that is currently in office can not legally make any financial agreements while campaining. Now that the election is over there are 2 days of negotiations schedueld this comming week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tniuqs Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) Annie: Yup, I am pretty certain its the same DAN/ BUFF the turncoat and no point in getting all riled up with a circulation of 4000 Bud growers rag ... the COURIER-ISLANDER is almost as popular as the Pipestone Flyer .. which is free btw and also a member of Canwest News Service. pfft. Writing long winded letters to COURIER-ISLANDER is like trying to talk ACoP into doing something for its membership other that be a Cop and protect the public from Medics instead of the Conservatives in AB ... now that is a scary bunch these days ! Oh, here is a tid bit (off topic a bit and sorry in advance) but CUPE for EMS was voted in Stelmach's riding of Veggie Ville .... ah the plot thickens. But PLEASE ALL don't slam a VETERAN and dust is just one of them on this site, cause if you haven't been there, been shot at and seen the true horror of watching comrades and the innocent brutally killed and burned raped or blown up or ..... worse getting tossed after the fact like used ass wipe .... that's wrong on so every level. Well don't me get off topic but this is the 65th anniversary of 'D' day and one could count upon my rather intense wrath (because I like speaking my mother language) and when our troops are presently kicking Taliban asses back into the Swat Valley so the those bastards don't show up on our door step .... because .... they will ! I hope ALL get THAT message... just saying. cheers HERBIE: Strikes may be necessary in some cases, but there are very real consequences. The hard feelings, animosity, distrust, and angst never really go away and do a great deal of harm to the organizations involved. Its not a Walk Out or withdrawl of services as we saw in Edmonton in 86, its just Job Action and not the first time in BC either. Edited June 7, 2009 by tniuqs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts