Ever Carry a Gun on the Ambulance ?

[Christopher.Collins]

Sorry Dust I think you might have missed that I qualified that statement and exempted specialty resources. I don't feel that people trained only as paramedics should ever need to carry. I feel that people who operate in areas where it's prudent to carry should be trained in the pertinent specialty before being allowed to carry. I should have explained my position more clearly.

Tniuqs gave some very good examples of situations in Canada where it would be sensible to be armed. Having worked remote areas in the past I can honestly say there are places I wouldn't go without a rifle.

Perhaps... but you didnt just specify the carry of firearms you also mentioned the need to wear a vest. And I still fail to see how protecting yourself means your doing a piss poor job of evaluating scene safety.

Do you remember that car fire a while back? Forgot where it was but it was big news. Some guy lit a car on fire and as soon as the FD arrived a paramedic was shot and killed getting out of the truck. The sniper then light the house he was in on fire taking his own life. No one expected it, and it appeard to be a nice little suburban neighborhood. Even a local police chaplain lived right accross the street.

How about the D.C sniper? That guy could have opened up on any of us!

Im not advocating that ALL fire and ems personel should wear at all times... but thats just an example of how a "routine" (fyi I hate that word) situation can turn violent.

If you think that your safe all the time and that you shouldnt be anywhere that you need a vest well then your wrong. Yea we shouldnt be in a situation thats dangerous... but there are lots of areas that can quickly turn dangerous even with PD already there. They arnt the damn secret service protecting us, they dont scan every single person for guns weeks in advanced prior to us being there.

[firedoc5]

Perhaps... but you didnt just specify the carry of firearms you also mentioned the need to wear a vest. And I still fail to see how protecting yourself means your doing a piss poor job of evaluating scene safety.

Do you remember that car fire a while back? Forgot where it was but it was big news. Some guy lit a car on fire and as soon as the FD arrived a paramedic was shot and killed getting out of the truck. The sniper then light the house he was in on fire taking his own life. No one expected it, and it appeard to be a nice little suburban neighborhood. Even a local police chaplain lived right accross the street.

How about the D.C sniper? That guy could have opened up on any of us!

Im not advocating that ALL fire and ems personel should wear at all times... but thats just an example of how a "routine" (fyi I hate that word) situation can turn violent.

If you think that your safe all the time and that you shouldnt be anywhere that you need a vest well then your wrong. Yea we shouldnt be in a situation thats dangerous... but there are lots of areas that can quickly turn dangerous even with PD already there. They arnt the damn secret service protecting us, they dont scan every single person for guns weeks in advanced prior to us being there.

That happened in a suburb of St. Louis. Wearing a vest under bunker gear is miserable, but sometimes called for.

[spenac]

Ignorant and naive statement. Very disappointing from you.

Exactly.

Dust we need to find the discussion about other benefits to wearing vests.

Hey cool 33.3333% carry on the ambulance.

[rock_shoes]

If you think that your safe all the time and that you shouldnt be anywhere that you need a vest well then your wrong. Yea we shouldnt be in a situation thats dangerous... but there are lots of areas that can quickly turn dangerous even with PD already there. They arnt the damn secret service protecting us, they dont scan every single person for guns weeks in advanced prior to us being there.

You folks sound as though some of you are working in war zones. If that's the case you need to be trained to operate in a war zone. Have I been in situations where "the hair stood up on the back of my neck"? Sure I have. Anyone who works in EMS for any amount of time will have that no matter what. If I get to the point where I feel the need to wear a vest or carry a firearm I will insist on getting the appropriate training to go along with that. The truth is I probably will come to a point where I need to carry. Not because I work in a war zone but because I love working SAR and remote areas.

[Christopher.Collins]

If you get to a point where you feel you need a vest and request more training, chances are youll be sued for abandonment once the scene is deemed safe because you refused to return untill your trained. How long have you even been in EMS?

[Christopher.Collins]

By the way Im not questioning your thoughts of needing to carry a firearm.., I hope it never comes to that in the US and yes then I would agree with you that we need better training. I completley disagree with you on the statement including bullet proof vests however.

[spenac]

http://www.emtcity.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=199007#199007

[Dustdevil]

Sorry Dust I think you might have missed that I qualified that statement and exempted specialty resources. I don't feel that people trained only as paramedics should ever need to carry. I feel that people who operate in areas where it's prudent to carry should be trained in the pertinent specialty before being allowed to carry. I should have explained my position more clearly.

We're not even talking about guns now. We're talking about your contention that anyone who ever ends up in a dangerous situation is incompetent, and the implication that you are some how so much smarter than the rest of us that you are above ever ending up in a dangerous situation. That's bullshit, and shows what a rookie you are.

[reaper]

You folks sound as though some of you are working in war zones. If that's the case you need to be trained to operate in a war zone. Have I been in situations where "the hair stood up on the back of my neck"? Sure I have. Anyone who works in EMS for any amount of time will have that no matter what. If I get to the point where I feel the need to wear a vest or carry a firearm I will insist on getting the appropriate training to go along with that. The truth is I probably will come to a point where I need to carry. Not because I work in a war zone but because I love working SAR and remote areas.

I will tell that to my old partner! Working in a small quiet rural town. Responded to a diabetic call. Arrived on scene, family told him that pt was in bed room and that his bgl had gone low again. Partner walked in bedroom, pt not there. Partner called out his name. Pt walked out of bathroom and shot partner 4 times in the chest with a 30.06 hunting rifle! Yes, PD did have to shoot and kill the pt, as he tried to shoot them when they showed up.

This is a wake up call that any call can go south quickly. You never know what you will walk into, on any call.

Partner did survive and returned to ems 2 years later. He is a lot more cautious on every call he goes on. He also wears a vest fulltime now. It would not have stopped a rifle round, but may have slowed them down some!

Be Prepared for the Unexpected!

[rock_shoes]

We're not even talking about guns now. We're talking about your contention that anyone who ever ends up in a dangerous situation is incompetent, and the implication that you are some how so much smarter than the rest of us that you are above ever ending up in a dangerous situation. That's bullshit, and shows what a rookie you are.

Every single one of us will at some point or have already put ourselves in undue harm. Whether that is due to lack of experience or some other extraneous factor isn't really the point in this instance. I myself have gone in before and at some point in the call thought to myself "Wow that was stupid! I shouldn't have done that.". On reflection there where signs that going in was not a prudent decision. If you really look back on nearly every incident there are signs. Leaving out specialty services like tactical and military, we are all better off reviewing past mistakes of ourselves and others than running around in a vest thinking it's going to save us. Every medic I've worked with or around who wears a vest has, either through attitude or plain bravado, consistently been far more likely to find him/herself in a dangerous situation than the next medic. Coincidence? Not likely. More often than not it becomes a false sense of security. I don't profess to be any more intelligent than the next person. I can only go by my own experiences and observations limited though they may be. So yes I have in the past done "a piss poor job of evaluating scene safety". I most certainly do not exempt myself in any way.