spenac Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I can not believe that the auto workers unions made it clear that they would not accept pay cuts to help keep their jobs. How stupid is that? They make way to much money, many make $40-$50 an hour to use automated equipment to put one piece of equipment on the car. I am sorry to minimize a job but I have seen and known many auto industry people, many are my friends. They are smart so I really wonder if they will be smart enough to demand that their union concede some major pay cuts so they at least have a job. Heck $30 an hour is much better than they will find if their plant shuts down. If the auo plants shut down there will be so many unemployed there will be no job openings even at minimum wage. I would rather get something and feed my family than be jobless. Did the union contact the workers and ask? Heck if the union would have been smart they would have approached congress before pay cuts were brought up and offered to take temporary pay cuts in order to help. This would have made them look like HERO's instead of zero's. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/13/business...ml?ref=business Just as reference not actually discussing unions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crotchitymedic1986 Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I have always been against unions, and I am still against the traditional union. I argued that they had outlived their usefullness, and had basically priced their employees out of jobs in almost every industry that was heavily unionized (steel, auto, textiles, manufacturing). But at the same time, when you look at what has happened to the average american worker over the past 20-30 years, you have to wonder if a "new union" would not be a good thing. Think about all the downsizing, mergers, bankruptsies, and buyouts over the past several decades that did nothing but get the CEOs and shareholders rich, while wages for the worker bees had remained relatively stagnant. I have no problem with CEOs making big money, but when they are paid 100's of times what the average employee is making, and they are making it while their company is losing money, that is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmeaner Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I have always been against unions, and I am still against the traditional union. I argued that they had outlived their usefullness, and had basically priced their employees out of jobs in almost every industry that was heavily unionized (steel, auto, textiles, manufacturing). Quoted as I am in 100% agreement. Assuming that this really was the reason congress denied the automakers, then I am in total agreement with them and will shed not a tear when General Motors starts their announcements of bankruptsy first thing next year. But at the same time, when you look at what has happened to the average american worker over the past 20-30 years, you have to wonder if a "new union" would not be a good thing. Think about all the downsizing, mergers, bankruptsies, and buyouts over the past several decades that did nothing but get the CEOs and shareholders rich, while wages for the worker bees had remained relatively stagnant. I have no problem with CEOs making big money, but when they are paid 100's of times what the average employee is making, and they are making it while their company is losing money, that is wrong. I don't believe unions are going to be able to do a single thing about CEOs' salaries or golden parachutes. I don't think they're going to do a thing about mergers, buyouts, downsizing or bankruptsies, so I still don't see a need for them, new or old. I think if you want to get a good job, go to school. If you want to protect your future, save money. If you don't want to live paycheck to paycheck, live within your means. Thousands and thousands of grandparents are secretly saying "I told you so!" in thier heads. Why do you think old mantras like "Don't buy it until you have the money in hand." or "Waste not, want not." exist?!? Because these people have lived through or directly after the great depression, they know how easy things you believe are infallable can fail. It's someone else's turn on the soap box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambodriver Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 without a union im sure I would be getting paid private, for profit ems wages. Thank god for them. my pension, my wage is due to them. You see what happens when private ems runs things w/o a union? I can't believe people live on those wages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmeaner Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 without a union im sure I would be getting paid private, for profit ems wages. Thank god for them. my pension, my wage is due to them. You see what happens when private ems runs things w/o a union? I can't believe people live on those wages Yep, I have. They make more than the division that is non-union. They are also 911 based where the higher paid division is strictly interfacility transport. Plus, no union dues! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustdevil Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 without a union im sure I would be getting paid private, for profit ems wages. Thank god for them. my pension, my wage is due to them. You see what happens when private ems runs things w/o a union? I can't believe people live on those wages Nonsense. Apparently you've never lived in a non-union state. Regardless, the private, for-profits have unions too. So if unions are the reason for high wages, why aren't they making more money too? Economics much? :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don1977 Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 The private for-profit non-union EMS I work for is doing just fine............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambodriver Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 edit: NM, things are different where I live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDP Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 I can not believe that the auto workers unions made it clear that they would not accept pay cuts to help keep their jobs. How stupid is that? They make way to much money, many make $40-$50 an hour to use automated equipment to put one piece of equipment on the car. I am sorry to minimize a job but I have seen and known many auto industry people, many are my friends. They are smart so I really wonder if they will be smart enough to demand that their union concede some major pay cuts so they at least have a job. Heck $30 an hour is much better than they will find if their plant shuts down. If the auo plants shut down there will be so many unemployed there will be no job openings even at minimum wage. I would rather get something and feed my family than be jobless. Did the union contact the workers and ask? Heck if the union would have been smart they would have approached congress before pay cuts were brought up and offered to take temporary pay cuts in order to help. This would have made them look like HERO's instead of zero's. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/13/business...ml?ref=business Just as reference not actually discussing unions. Who the hell can support a family of 4 on 8$ an hour? Will YOU? I think the union has many benefits,more so than draw backs. I think you should look at both sides of the picture before you start pointing fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmeaner Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Who the hell can support a family of 4 on 8$ an hour? Will YOU? I think the union has many benefits,more so than draw backs. I think you should look at both sides of the picture before you start pointing fingers. First, who is making $8 and hour? Second, why do you have a family of 4 when you are only making 8$ and hour? Are you looking to the union to solve your problems for you? Do you think that just because you work for an employer as a union member they owe you a living? Both sides are being looked at, and it looks like only one side is taking responsibility. Edit: I'm not sticking up for Spenac. He's perfectly capable of digging his own holes. :twisted: I just happen to have a similar view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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