Union Affiliations

[reaper]

That is one reason why unions don't work for EMS. There is no threat. Private's can walk out. If you work for a county government EMS service, you have no threat. Most have laws against striking, since you are a public safety service.

If you have no threat, you have no leverage!

[letmesleep]

Interesting thoughts reaper.......ummmm.....I work for a county run, tax based, EMS only, 911 service. I also belong to a union.

Just food for thought!

[JPINFV]

How about they suck because they perpetuate the "Us vs Management" culture that's good for no one.

[p3medic]

Our union has provided us better pay, better equimpent, better personal protection equipment, better retirement, a reduced residency requirement, lobbied city and state government for changes that would benefit EMS, and provided members with financial support when members have had serious illness/injury off the job. They have also spent more time than I would like defending crappy employee's who should be fired. I think, for us anyhow, the pro's outweigh the con's.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Our union has provided us better pay, better equimpent, better personal protection equipment, better retirement, a reduced residency requirement, lobbied city and state government for changes that would benefit EMS, and provided members with financial support when members have had serious illness/injury off the job. They have also spent more time than I would like defending crappy employee's who should be fired. I think, for us anyhow, the pro's outweigh the con's.

with all those improvements what have your EMS rates done? Have they gone up? Or have they gone down.

Remember, for everything that a union gets you the cost has to be recouped somehow. It's called income redistribution, you get better pay and better equipment and the patients get a higher rate.

I'd be curious as to where that money came from to get you all the neat stuff you are so happy you have.

DO NOT get me wrong, I'm all for that good stuff but the money has to come from somewhere

[p3medic]

It comes from our operating budget from the city (taxpayer) and income from billing. Our billing rates have gone up recently, however we rarely collect on anything other than what insurance/free-care pays.

[tniuqs]

That is one reason why unions don't work for EMS. There is no threat. Private's can walk out. If you work for a county government EMS service, you have no threat. Most have laws against striking, since you are a public safety service.

If you have no threat, you have no leverage!

Disagree Strongly, I will explain my rationale:

Privates (as you put it) get fired if they walk individually, there's a dozen rookies that want that job because of the dumb ass "I want to be a life saver mentality" does it tickle when you blow somoke up yer own arse ? meh ... this is the exact mentality that shoots you guys in your own foot, are MDs called 'Lifesavers' no there called Professionals.

So open the mind and look to Professional Associations/ Unions on a worldwide perspective .... NZ and OZ "mates" are in the politicians faces and the news daily fighting a good fight for their membership, not just wages but work conditions, meds and kit, if you look OZ are some of the most highly educated Paramedics on the planet .. thanks in part to the Charles Stewart programs.

Threat of withdrawal of services is a viable concept and even when you are declared an essential service so just what can they do, have the Police:

Throw all EMS workers in jail ? That would look good to the taxpaying public ....

There ARE slow downs, large numbers of members that "cough, sniff" book off work on a certain day, to make a point and put all the supervisors on the road to tune the middle management up a tad to reality.... just saying, lots of ways to skin pole cats.

Or "forgetting to enter the correct patient billing info"

Unfortunately British Columbia tried that exactly ploy i.e. no billing info hit the government in the "man purse" they failed miserably this was many years ago and now it reflects the present delivery of care because the idiotic government knee jerked to punish the EMS workers (more or less they punished themselves) by shutting the doors with the Justice Institute AND this was the ONLY training facility in BC funny thing is the accredited Instructors (government drones) supported this dumb ass move.... The Result: Only a couple of metropolitan areas in a HUGE Province now have ALS services now, about 10 years behind the rest of Kanukistan, yes unions can be stupid.

Thing is if one can learn from others errors and evaluate over the long haul ... Hey may be someone could do a comparison the present day delivery of services vs. the history of development of Ambulance Operations on a very large scale ...

Oh Hello Dr B. you busy these days ?

Oh yes agreed an actual strike does not work for anyone, period, and financially if one does the math and it becomes quite clear.

and the general taxpaying Joe on the street thinks its just about the cash ... well at least in my hood.

One loses serious credibility with the a profession if one walks, Hey ever hear of a Fire Department or a Police department going on strike ? I have NOT, compare wages and work conditions, I double dawg dare you.

You sitting down? I am presently not a union card holder LOL ! I have chosen to be an industrial whore, laws of supply and demand actually do work, but we here are on the verge of exactly that unionization provincially (I so hope it becomes a unified voice)

I do support large organised associations that proactively lobby government ... NOW here is how smart PAC is .... thats Paramedics of Canada, good researchers presenting well worded documents to individual government officials and personally walk the halls of Parliament physically knocking on the doors of the MPs (called Members of Parliament) AND the part I find immensely hilarious is their funding comes from the regulatory bodies and the unions ... well for now here in very Northern Texas, just 15 bucks a year is peanuts. Earlier retirement, Public Safety Officer Status (akin to the same powers of LE and a Fire Chiefs) assualt us and your going to crowbar hotel, involvement on a national development level, working on national reciprocity, proactive with education forums.

This 15 buck's for the national cause will become a debate in our ACoP in the next annual general meeting I have been told. Good Grief.... May DOG help them because I will be there to umm "enlighten" them, PAC has done more great work behind closed doors for the EMS Profession than any regulatory body or small union, ever has.

end of missive and ramblings.

cheers

[reaper]

Interesting thoughts reaper.......ummmm.....I work for a county run, tax based, EMS only, 911 service. I also belong to a union.

Just food for thought!

But, what have they done for you? It is your personal choice to belong to a union or work where one is in existence. I choose to work for agencies that are not unionized. They don't need them, because the agency already does a great job of providing benefits and pay. A union will not help in any way.

Most gov agencies that are unionized are tied in with the FD. I choose not to work for any EMS agency that is with a FD. This is a Strong belief I have and will not work for something I don't believe in.

[Niftymedi911]

But, what have they done for you? It is your personal choice to belong to a union or work where one is in existence. I choose to work for agencies that are not unionized. They don't need them, because the agency already does a great job of providing benefits and pay. A union will not help in any way.

Most gov agencies that are unionized are tied in with the FD. I choose not to work for any EMS agency that is with a FD. This is a Strong belief I have and will not work for something I don't believe in.

Reaper, I, like LetMeSleep also work for a 3rd Service County based EMS service that does 9-1-1/IFT's/ and Critical Care and no FD. The state of Florida is a right to work state.... meaning u could be fired without due cause. Our IAFF union was founded in 1997 based on the fact that Admin was not paying OT to the road crews. Well, the newly formed union fought it and thus became our IAFF union. Since then, we've gone from 12 hr system status to a 24/48 work schedule with stations, better equipment, better pay and benefits, not to mention representing you when admin swings the ax..... The policies and procedures that the Union has insituted since it's inception in 1997 here are priceless. They allow us to be the better organization it is today. Administration has also come a long way, both our local and admin collabrately work together on issues that are important. They handle things in a manner that should be a model for all. We're close to 85% union and out 370 employees that's an accomplishment. Yes, our union dues are pricey, but the price offsets the value that we get out of it. Everyone has their own opinion and are entitled to it. So Reaper, if u choose no union then ur entitled to that choice. I just know for me I chose my union. Have a nice day!

[reaper]

Nifty,

Why did you need a union to fight for overtime? There is a state labor dept. for that.

As I said, it is your choice to be union or not. Everything you mentioned has been done without a union being needed. I see going from a 12hr to 24hr truck a step back wards. Lee county is a busy system and I do not believe that any busy system should run 24 hr trucks. There is to much of a fatigue factor involved. This has been proved over and over. That is why a lot of busy services now run 12 hr shifts.

If you are happy with your union, more power to you. I will not pay dues to someone, to provide the same thing I can do myself. Especially the IAFF.