spenac Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 What you will learn and do as a basic will not prove any real benefit and actually lead to you harming patients." so you didn't say what you learn as a basic will not prove any real benefit? i got the above from your statement. and you still have not explained how i as an emt b can harm a pt. unless of course i drop them You harm by not being able to provide the care needed. It is harm by omission. I spent many years as a Basic. Because I could not do more and I was the highest level of care available many suffered harm, conditions worsened, some actually died. Had I been a Paramedic many would have had much better outcomes. Yes I followed protocol, I even was authorized many advanced procedures. But because I stayed basic patients suffered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 You harm by not being able to provide the care needed. It is harm by omission. I spent many years as a Basic. Because I could not do more and I was the highest level of care available many suffered harm, conditions worsened, some actually died. Had I been a Paramedic many would have had much better outcomes. Yes I followed protocol, I even was authorized many advanced procedures. But because I stayed basic patients suffered. Hmm. It seems like the real problem was being placed in a position as a Basic where you were required or expected to perform work that you were not qualified for at the time. I.e., if you were on a team with more experienced paramedics, wouldn't they have been liable for the majority of the work? Perhaps this is the "ideal scenario" that the schools that require experience as an EMT-B first are envisioning - sort of a "mentoring" of Basics not unlike they get when under a preceptor. But the "reality", from what I seem to be reading around here, is that it's much more unpredictable/unreliable...? (ie, a truck of Basics getting sent to a scene where they are helpless) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 This is the link to the site. http://www.sponsorhospital.org/ Its a joint class between Yale and St. Rapheal Hospital. My mentor took it as did a few other peers. Most everyone else I know takes the Capital Community College class. I spoke to the director of the sponsor hospital class on the phone, you see my finances really suck and I cant even get approved for a loan, a few thousand dollars is a lot of money even broken up and he said that they could try to help me by allowing payments. If you're coming from out of state, tuition at state schools is pretty much just as expensive as privately taught anyway. A year at a university is going to run you 15k-30k on average, regardless of the curriculum. Jefferson U charges around 11k for the Medic course, and 1k for EMT-B - considerably more than the county0run schools. But it's reliable (the courses aren't tied to a registration minimum) and you probably get much better clinical experience, due to it being a hospital. The tough part isn't the tuition, it seems to be that the grads just don't make enough to easily pay back the loans. The Yale course looks pretty serious. Is it common for Paramedics to work with cadavers? I thought that was normally only found in advanced pre-med ...? Great idea, but doesn't seem feasible for most schools. And they also require a year's experience- Emergency experience, too, not just transfers! I think I am starting to get the picture now, vis a vis many folk here disagreeing on whether EMT-B's should even be on the scene of a serious accident. Anyway, thanks for the link. I know trying to find schools in Philly was like herding cats. There was no organized place to get this information - though there was PLENTY of erroneous and outdated information online. Googling does not work, and leads to sites that list nonexistent classes. Even the schools offering it can't keep their own websites updated. And the Pennsylvania EMS website looks like it was created by a housewife in her spare time. Of course I can't expect much from state-run websites here, considering just last week they tried to send me 90 miles away to the "closest" auto registration locale - turns out there was one a half mile away, but the DMV website thinks Philadelphia does not have ANY auto tag offices! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spenac Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Hmm. It seems like the real problem was being placed in a position as a Basic where you were required or expected to perform work that you were not qualified for at the time. I.e., if you were on a team with more experienced paramedics, wouldn't they have been liable for the majority of the work? Perhaps this is the "ideal scenario" that the schools that require experience as an EMT-B first are envisioning - sort of a "mentoring" of Basics not unlike they get when under a preceptor. But the "reality", from what I seem to be reading around here, is that it's much more unpredictable/unreliable...? (ie, a truck of Basics getting sent to a scene where they are helpless) Oh but when I was with a Paramedic what experience did I actually get? More driving experience. So again nothing that could not have been learned while getting proper education at the Paramedic level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTXMEDIC Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 What you will learn and do as a basic will not prove any real benefit and actually lead to you harming patients." so you didn't say what you learn as a basic will not prove any real benefit? i got the above from your statement. and you still have not explained how i as an emt b can harm a pt. unless of course i drop them nitro to a right sided MI? a non-rebreather on a hyperventilating patient? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTXMEDIC Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Oh but when I was with a Paramedic what experience did I actually get? More driving experience. So again nothing that could not have been learned while getting proper education at the Paramedic level. Hopefully you would have been paying attention to your medic and learned non-emt skills such as lead positions for the monitor, setting up IV equipment, why we draw blood, what 'x' drug does and when is it required, how to operate IV pumps/monitors, signs when someone is actually 'sick', how to do a patient assessment beyond "Does that hurt?" and most importantly, how to TALK to your patients. and yeah, you learn all this in medic school but you could have had a head start if you paid attention. It seems to me like you wasted your time as a basic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spenac Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Hopefully you would have been paying attention to your medic and learned non-emt skills such as lead positions for the monitor, setting up IV equipment, why we draw blood, what 'x' drug does and when is it required, how to operate IV pumps/monitors, signs when someone is actually 'sick', how to do a patient assessment beyond "Does that hurt?" and most importantly, how to TALK to your patients. and yeah, you learn all this in medic school but you could have had a head start if you paid attention. It seems to me like you wasted your time as a basic. Actually as a basic I did 12 leads. I had many advanced level drugs etc. So guess what I speak from experience. I could have gotten my education as a Paramedic and not been harmed at all. Nothing I learned could not have been learned in Paramedic course. But guess what my patients would have been much better off with a Paramedic. Yes on scene on the occassions we had a paramedic I did study what they did. Sorry I could have done that when in Paramedic school and then I would have been getting the education to understand why they did what they did. Sorry the basic needs to be done away with. It is just stupid that we expect people to actually do anything with a boy scout first aid course called EMT basic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTXMEDIC Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 i take it that youre one of the people with the opinion that a dual medic truck is the way to go? I for one wouldnt trade my basic partner for ANY medic. She gets the experience of running calls and managing, within her scope, her patients. I OTOH get all the ALS calls. works fine for us. what i DO have issues with is a dual BLS 911 truck. regardless if theres some medic guy chasing them, i just think its stupid, but if it works... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spenac Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 i take it that youre one of the people with the opinion that a dual medic truck is the way to go? I for one wouldnt trade my basic partner for ANY medic. She gets the experience of running calls and managing, within her scope, her patients. I OTOH get all the ALS calls. works fine for us. what i DO have issues with is a dual BLS 911 truck. regardless if theres some medic guy chasing them, i just think its stupid, but if it works... With 2 medics you have 2 educated people. Less chance of missing things. Plus you can get a break in between patients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamaith Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 lets face it basics will not go away. no private company is going to pay 20 plus an hour to do transports to and from dialysis. would you or any of your medic co - workers want to dialysis or 911 calls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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