Freak Out

[p3medic]

If not hog tied face down does no harm, just like a person sleeping on their stomach. Makes it harder for them to fight, spit, etc.

See post above. Face down on the stomach does cause harm, it is well documented. Look up positional asphyxia. I have unfortunately seen it first hand, its no joke. Never restrain someone face down, ever.

[reaper]

With PD and FD on scene, I would flip him on his back. Have PD handcuff each arm to rails. Straps across the legs and chest, to hold him down. If I have a pt that is trying to headbutt or spit, I place a c-collar on the pt. Then take 3" tape and secure head to stretcher back, placing tape across c-collar. This way his head is secure, airway is intact and it is very hard to spit good. I have had many ED docs now use this method, especially for biters.

[dougd]

PCP!! Place on back and restrain to stretcher.

According to a partner of mine, you've never lived until you've watched the 600lbs guy strung out on PCP start fighting in his restraints and shifting his body weight enough to stand up with the ER gurney still strapped to his back because you didn't get his legs restrained in time. :shock:

[spenac]

See post above. Face down on the stomach does cause harm, it is well documented. Look up positional asphyxia. I have unfortunately seen it first hand, its no joke. Never restrain someone face down, ever.

My bad your absolutely right. Something that worked good was the old chicken wire basket stretchers. Strap patient down, then strap basket stretcher over patient. They were going no where. Of course hard to take vitals and all but....

Actually though proper use of triangle bandages, backboard straps, c-collars, spit sock, chemicals, and regular belts you should be able to safely restrain a person. If not have the cops shoot them, then treat for lead poisoning.

[Richard B the EMT]

While I always remind everyone to follow local protocols, I think it is internationally across the boards that one never places a patient face down on the stretcher!

Also, no "Bellevue Sandwiches", placing the patient between a long backboard and a "Scoop" stretcher. I catch anyone doing this, after restraining with every belt, tape, and the LEO's cuffs to the stretcher, whoever it is that I caught is walking back to the base, as well as being brought up on departmental, state, and whatever-else-I-can-find-on-them charges!

In all cases, remember that someone hopped up on various recreational pharmaceuticals, individually or in combination, can exhibit feats of strength to put fear into even the Hulk, himself.

Joking aside, it was perhaps 25 to 30 years ago, a druggie was shot over 10 times by the FBI, all "Kill" shots (should have instantly died from each bullet wound), but still, due to the drugs, was able to come after the FBI agents and kill at least 3 of them.

So the guy broke his arm in 2 places? Where? The waiting room and the ER? (LOL)

[firedoc5]

When we did have a pt. face down there would be no weight on his back so there would be no asphyxiation. Arms and legs held down and/ or strapped. Bed sheet placed across shoulders, lower back, and upper legs, all tied to cot. But sometimes it is just not feasible to get all that placed. Nine times out of ten we would, but this kid was exceptional for some reason. He fought the entire time, no letting up, no "lull" in the action.

100mg. Thorazine lasted about twenty minutes, just enough to get him properly restrained. But he was still tensed up and trying to do anything he could to fight and get loose. While in restraints he strained against them hard enough that his left radius and humerus just above his elbow snapped. It sounded like a .22 going off. I can't remember what they gave him, but they knocked him out enough that eventually they had to tube him. They didn't want him to cause any more trauma to himself. He was in ICU for about three days.