American Fire Fighters demoted for not speaking Spanish

[JPINFV]

I'm sorry, I refuse to learn Bostonian. I like my "r"s very much, thank you.

[VentMedic]

Coming from a small country called Miami which is located just north of Cuba, I've heard all this before.

The 1980s were turbulent times in Florida to a point where we finally had to vote on what language was to be the "official language" of the state in 1988.

An interesting but very opionated website:

http://www.proenglish.org/issues/offeng/states.html

[DwayneEMTP]

Welcome to America, speak f--king English! My ancestors learned the language and assimilated, no reason they can't!!!

F--king liberals.

Welcome to EMTCity where you're expected to make an intelligent and logical argument.

I for one like Kaisu's analogy to 'equipment'. (Though it's me, not her, carrying the analogy forward as I doubt she would ever look at human beings as 'equipment') If you choose to work for a company that employs 85% Hispanic speaking workers...and you want to be promoted within that company, then perhaps you had better learn to 'operate the equipment'.

She asked a logical, intelligent question. Why, instead of this silly verbal ejaculation, didn't you simply answer it?

Am I happy with the state of immigration in the U.S.? Not even a little bit, it's one of the main reasons I moved from California.

But if the U.S. is going to continue to complain about it, yet encourage it, then things are going to get a little hinky for the "English only!" crowd.

I am one of those that believe that we have room for only one national language...My government feels otherwise...So what is the next productive step?

How would you resolve this issue? And of course I mean logically...not some "kill the Mexicans!" crap.

Dwayne

[Asysin2leads]

such reasoned discourse... your ancestors also bled patients and owned slaves... why don't you

Give me your ancestry and five minutes and I will give you a laundry list of shit your ancestors pulled. Were all in the same boat together, kiddo.

The current trend in immigration happens every time America needs a cheap source of labor. When fat Americans won't put down the remote to put out the forest fires, then the Mexicans come in and do it and don't gripe about things like sick leave, OSHA, "the glass ceiling", and who's cubicle faces the window. They come, they work, they leave, and so long as there is work for them to do, they'll be here. When I worked in Jersey, I can't tell you how many people from the lawnscaping business I saw come in with horrendous injuries, who got patched up and went back to work. So long as there is a niche for people like that, they'll continue to work and employers will continue to adapt to hire them. Its all economics, supply and demand.

So, Oregonians, either figure out a way to put out the forest fires with English speaking people or learn to speak Spanish. Or, stop building your million dollar McMansions in the middle of forest fire zones, and let f---er burn here and there, like it should, and then you'd need less wild land firefighters, and all would be well.

Personally, I say let the McMansions burn. Evacuate, contain as necessary, sit in fire tower with six pack and barcalounger, enjoy the evening.

[Scaramedic]

Personally, I say let the McMansions burn. Evacuate, contain as necessary, sit in fire tower with six pack and barcalounger, enjoy the evening.

Amen.

Personally I love the 'Eco-Friendly' mansions they build where they only had to cut down 20 acres of timber too get a view of the river.

[Kaisu]

You might want to drop the liberal history book there Kaisu. Mediccjh is from an Irish background. During a large portion of American history the only people hated more than blacks were the Irish. You ever heard the term 'beat you like a redheaded stepchild' or the term 'paddy wagon' both Irish slurs that are still used today.

P.S. Most Irish came after the end of slavery.

I wasn't trying to refer to the individual in a factual basis, merely pointing out the fallacy of the argument

[Asysin2leads]

Kaisu, you still haven't manned up and told me about your heritage yet... Come on, clock is ticking...

I'm wondering is your login related to the Chinese/Singaporean/Malaysian word "Kiasu"? Meaning, literally "a fear of losing", but better used to describe a general perceived social ineptness?

[Kaisu]

Kaisu, you still haven't manned up and told me about your heritage yet... Come on, clock is ticking...

I'm wondering is your login related to the Chinese/Singaporean/Malaysian word "Kiasu"? Meaning, literally "a fear of losing", but better used to describe a general perceived social ineptness?

oh sorry... didn't realize you wanted an answer. I was born in Finland, raised in Canada and have been in the US for 10 years. The name obviously is Finnish and means "Pure".

ps... I learned English as a second language, learned French in Canadian schools and am going to return to my Spanish studies as soon as I graduate paramedic school next month. I have watched several communities wrestle with language issues. Language goes to the core of what defines a people and arouses many strong sentiments. I watched a Finnish community make the transition from a separate ethnic group to mainstream. I have observed the problems with French and English speaking populations in Canada, and now am watching what happens with the cultural clash of Spanish and English. I personally embrace other languages and cultures and consider myself all the richer for it. I can understand the fear that it generates, but not the inability of educated and intelligent people to rationally discuss it.

Is that manning up enough for you?

pps.. I generally vote republican, my husband is a vietnam combat vet, l am fiscally conservative and socially liberal. I believe in freedom of choice, the right to pursue happiness, and prayer in school. I have a concealed carry permit, have no problem with the right to bear arms and also a woman's right to chose.

Deciding that someone is a F----g liberal on the basis of a single opinion is simplistic thinking and characteristic of the strident polarization of the political scene in the US today. I was expecting a lot better from the lot of you.

[Asysin2leads]

oh sorry... didn't realize you wanted an answer. I was born in Finland, raised in Canada and have been in the US for 10 years. The name obviously in Finnish and means "Pure".

ps... I learned English as a second language, learned French in Canadian schools and am going to return to my Spanish studies as soon as I graduate paramedic school next month. I have watched several communities wrestle with language issues. Language goes to the core of what defines a people and arouses many strong sentiments. I watched a Finnish community make the transition from a separate ethnic group to mainstream. I have observed the problems with French and English speaking populations in Canada, and now am watching what happens with the cultural clash of Spanish and English. I personally embrace other languages and cultures and consider myself all the richer for it. I can understand the fear that it generates, but not the inability of educated and intelligent people to rationally discuss it.

Is that manning up enough for you?

Mmmmm.... That's okay I guess. Glad to have someone to debate language issues with. Here's my question. At one point does one culture have the duty to adapt to the other? Its funny you mention Canada, and the issue of the French speaking population. It always made me scratch my head how a province that makes up less than a quarter of the population of the country could so drastically influence a country's politics. I mean, imagine if the State of California, which is the closest thing we have to Quebec with a population making of 11% of our total, had enough sway to influence how every single sign, billboard, greeting and label were printed? That would be insane. The rest of the country would just say "Eff you, California, we're dumping you into the ocean" if they tried something like that. Yet Quebec was able to pull it off. 1/4 of the population was accommodated while 3/4 was inconvenienced, not to mention the economic, social, and environmental impact of printing everything in two languages to satisfy a group of people that was well in the minority. That's not good government and its not good democracy, either, IMHO.

At what point does a people's cultural identity have to take second place to society's ability to function? My personal feeling is that if you want to have your own cultural identity so much, go for it. Just don't rely on others when your identity doesn't allow you to function in the modern world.

As an aside, anyone ever notice, generally speaking, the more someone is so worried about their cultural heritage and pride the less likely they are to have to get up to go to work in the morning? And that goes for everyone, including Mary Lou and Boseevus whining about the Confederate flag on the front porch.

[triemal04]

There, done beating my head against the wall. Again.

First, don't get to pissed off about this; it's not a state law. Oregon Department of Forestry enacted this all on their own and it only applies to people that work for them. That being said, they are still a public entity and there is still enough wrong with this that anybody in their right mind should be upset and offended by it.

However, Manuel did say he felt the situation would improve if everyone spoke English. "We're living here. We should speak the language."

Best part of the article right there. Unfortunately this guy seems to be in a minority here. I know the old line about how "America doesn't have an official language," but shit, come on people, English is the language spoken by the vast majority of people here. I'm all for (legal) immigration, but if you move to another country that speaks a different language from your own, you damn well better plan on learning it, and pretty fast at that. To expect otherwise (to be treated differently and given special privileges because a situation that is your own fault) is wrong.

Now, sure, having people who work together and can't communicate, especially in a job as hazardous as wildland firefighting is a death waiting to happen. But why is the answer requiring certain people learn (probably poorly) someone else's language? Why not require the entire crew to speak the same tongue? After all, the crewboss won't be the only one to give orders, especially during an emergency, the crewboss won't always be there, and for the average accident, the person giving a warning is going to be the same type of grunt as the person who only speaks Spanish. Good communication is key, but this isn't the way to ensure it at all.

Not to mention that the part about the majority of ODF firefighters I've met are about the whitest people you'll ever find. The ones that aren't speak better English than I do. And since this doesn't apply to contract crews...

(this happens to be an old story...from what I've heard it still really isn't being enforced at all...still not right though)