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Should EMTs Have to Babysit Their Medics?


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Dwayne, I think you handled the pt just fine. I think your case makes a great point of education vs training. EMTs are trained to do ABCs then secondary survey. There is no deviation from that. Medics are taught to think ahead, which is what it sounds like you did. If I remember my ATLS also, IV access is part of the C in your ABCs. Maybe you should let the American College of Surgeons know that they are teaching trauma care wrong and hook them up with this guys phone number so he can set them straight.

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Thanks all...

In his defence, on a later call I asked him to set up the monitor while I was working on a non exciting MVA (single car, crossed the road hitting some small trees). I could see he didn't like it, but he did it without comment.

Later he asked why the monitor made sense, in a completely different tone.

I told him that I didn't like the man's color, but also, someone had posted an article at the City stating that as many as 50% of single car accidents that cross the road have a cardiac element involved. (Whether before or after the accident I can't remember, or if that's even knowable normally)

He said, "You know, I was treating you like a new student, then it ocurred to me that you pretty much do everything on your own. When we work together, I'm here for whatever you need. Just ask and I do it from now on."

He's not a bad kid...he's just been misled. Once when he fell due to rough driving he yelled up and asked the medic to be careful! Later I heard him say "this is your truck, I'm sorry I yelled at you." And the medic said, "Hey, we're equals here. This your truck too. We're equals."

When given the chance, it seems he rethought things, at least concerning our ralationship, and it's worked out ok.

Even though he's a basic, I hesitate to go on "his" truck and try and cow him. I was cowed on my first phase clinicals, to my shame, and learned almost nothing...

Thanks all for your thoughts.

Dwayne

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Dwayne, it's amazing how things work out. Keep working on this kid and I'll bet he will be a partner you will want to work with.

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I've already apologized for not using different verbage for the original topic, so I'm not going to again. As I stated before, it was NOT my intention to offend anyone. It just boggles my mind how blown out of proportion the subject became.

Paramedics think EMTs are scum, Nurses (that haven't been paramedics prior to nursing) think paramedics are scum, and if a nurse shows up on a scene and asks what they can do to help, the paramedic (usually under their breath) is saying "tear sheets and boil water". Unfortunately, I don't seeing any of that changing any time soon - it seems like it's been that way forever.

Yet somehow, in spite of all of the acrimony, the whole team consistently gets the job done.

I don't feel the need to beat my chest and proclaim that I'm better than anyone else to secure my place on the team; performing my duties calmly, consistently and in conjunction with the rest of the team takes care of that for me. I work in an area where there are a lot of EMTs, medics, and hospitals, and while we may not always like who we're on a call with, or the hospital we have to transport to, we treat each other with courtesy and professionalism - no matter the place in the food chain.

I also work for an oncologist, as well as with hospice patients, and there is nothing more humbling the seeing the hope and dignity these people display. I consider it a privilege and honor to be there with them when they take their last breath.

I'm so glad I don't fit into the box that some of you have, and would, place me in.

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Dwayne, it's amazing how things work out. Keep working on this kid and I'll bet he will be a partner you will want to work with.

Thanks Ruff, and you're right, you never really know how things might work out. I just think, that if anyone had known me in my late teens, very early twenties, you'd see why I need to give the kids a chance to adjust their behavior before raining down all over them.

I was a bigger knothead then than I am now...if you can imagine...

Dwayne

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I've already apologized for not using different verbage for the original topic, so I'm not going to again. As I stated before, it was NOT my intention to offend anyone. It just boggles my mind how blown out of proportion the subject became.

I don't think anyone is going to hang you out to dry over this. Your post brought out some interesting opinions from "both sides". You state you are going to medic school soon. This may let you see the other side of the coin, and see where some of the more experienced providers are coming from. Nuff said.

Paramedics think EMTs are scum, Nurses (that haven't been paramedics prior to nursing) think paramedics are scum,

I think this is an overgeneralization. As you have said, there are many paramedics here (your Welsh buddy for one :wink:) who are also RN's. There are probably many more RNs who are also EMT-Bs, not to mention the numerous "seasoned paramedics" who are, as we speak, in nursing school. The two jobs have their similarities and differences, and a combination of both should make for a well-rounded provider.

if a nurse shows up on a scene and asks what they can do to help, the paramedic (usually under their breath) is saying "tear sheets and boil water". Unfortunately, I don't seeing any of that changing any time soon - it seems like it's been that way forever.

I have said something to similar effect in the past and I am a nurse. It has to be said, those pushy RNs with no prehospital / acute care experience, who often find themselves at the scene of MVCs (in spite of the 15 fire trucks, and 4 ambulances already on scene) and who feel the need to lay down the law, are just a nuisance. Those with relevant experience, who know the roles they can undertake on scene, and who would not throw Dolly from the pram if they were asked to hold c-spine, can be a great asset however. You can usually spot the on scene CEN / CCRN-types from the... I dunno, "lactation consultants" a mile away.

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You can usually spot the on scene CEN / CCRN-types from the... I dunno, "lactation consultants" a mile away.

I would still prefer not to have them in the way. The only exception would be if I new them personally.

Not to start another b!%^H fest, but I have a number of nurse/paramedics, who got their medic license to be a nurse (transition program)..and they cannot function in the field. A handful work in the ICU or ED. Same goes for a similar group who have trouble inhospital, but are fantastic in the field..you just don't know until you get there. Paramedic, RN, doctor..best to 'dance with the girl that brung ya', and not introduce the added variables onscene..IMHO

NOTE: Not much to do with the original post..but I had an opinion :P

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People are probably going to think I should be out hugging trees and kissing whales, but I don't think a person, doesn't matter what level they're at but happy being there, should be slammed because they don't fit into the parameters that others set for them.

I remember the cry of outrage among the medics when one of the local paramedic training institutes dispensed with the mandate that a student applying had to have at least one year of well-documented EMT experience, and several letters of recommendation prior to be accepted to the program. There have been several students that had never even been on an ambulance before going through the program. I'm still not sure whether or not I agree with that. From what I understand from a friend of mine in the Marines, the military operates differently so I'm not including them in this.

Most of the hospitals around here used to run squads with both an EMT and a Paramedic on crew, but have gone to 2 medics for 911 calls. EMTs in this area have 2 options (not hospital-related, such as a tech) to provide service: either working for a fire company or working for a local transport company. And I have to smile at this bit of irony, because the firehouse EMTs think the transport EMTs are "lizard luggers" who don't do 911 calls, and therefore not real EMTs...

It's been interesting hearing of Dwayne's experiences so far, as he's going through school now - I'm sorry that the EMT gave him such a hard way to go, but he handled it like a pro - kudos, Dwayne. I've also picked up a lot of really good stuff from reading the posts, not only here, but in the other sections as well.

I won't even begin to pretend that I know everything; learning is such a constant process. The medics that I work with were happy that I'm finally making the leap to medic school and have offered me any help that I need - I'm beyond grateful to them for that, and look forward into tapping into their expertise.

WelshMedic and I have had many long chats about EMS, over many beers and via email and IM. He's a wonderful provider and I have all the respect in the world for him and others like him.

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Most of the hospitals around here used to run squads with both an EMT and a Paramedic on crew, but have gone to 2 medics for 911 calls. EMTs in this area have 2 options (not hospital-related, such as a tech) to provide service: either working for a fire company or working for a local transport company. And I have to smile at this bit of irony, because the firehouse EMTs think the transport EMTs are "lizard luggers" who don't do 911 calls, and therefore not real EMTs...

The ironic thing is that the IFT basics deal, on average, with sicker patients than 911 crews, and, if the basic is sharp, will pick up more medicine [reading H/Ps on discharges, lab values, etc. Those lovely little "Lets call for a non-emergent transport instead of calling 911" calls] than 911 basics. Of course, the flip side is that you will most likely see more morons who don't give a flying flip working for IFTs. Those basics drag down the reputation of everyone else working there.

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