Just Plain Ruff

You are right Dwayne. When it comes to human suffering we are a forgetful people. It may make the news for a day or two, maybe a week. Some stories last a lifetime or last for generations, the holocaust comes to mind. But stories like this one in the OP, will last one to two days except this one, it's there for at least as long as we keep this thread alive. But in the scheme of things, something worse will come along and take it's place. I'm sure there is something much worse waiting to take it's place right now, it just has to be discovered. I pray for this child, I pray for the responders who have to deal with this situation. And I hope they are getting the help that they need to deal with this. What gets me is why was this child the only one who was this way in the family. The other 4 children were apparantly healthy. Was this abuse or a medical condition of the child. One can jump to the conclusion it was abuse but was it? I make the assumption abuse but until charges are filed I can't make that judgement. But this is a terrible story like you said. There will be another story to take it's place in the near future.

Well I think that reading that article it gives a much better reality check than let's say the New York Times would or the Chicago Tribune. Just how do you think this article would have been written by one of the mainstream media? Even though Cracked isn't a nationally known and accepted media source, they did speak a bit of truth in much of the article. How's the burn out rate in EMS? How's the breakdown, fire in the ambulance, ambulance crash rate in EMS? Pretty high right? They got it right but they did I think over sensationalize that part. Patients abusing the system, that doesn't happen in your neck of the woods? I'm sure it doesn't so to me, other than the crude language(they could have left that out) the article just puts it all out there and speaks much truth. Sorry if some of you didn't like the way it was written but seriously, other than the exploding parts what parts are not based significantly in truth. And a couple of the services I've worked in, the EMT's weaving in and out of traffic and blowing red lights, that article must have been written after riding with the emts that work for that service. So I dont' think that you will get a mainstream media outlet to shed that much truth on this industry that Cracked did in it's article. If you disagree with me, that's fine but I found the article to be quite truthful.

I needed that Dwayne. that's awesome. With the week apart from this Lotus thread, Ive had a hell of a week. So I have purposely stayed away from this discussion. I've been on the periphery. But not a participant. I'm stealing that image if that's ok Dwayne. hey AK or Mods, can I make my screen name Captain Fuckitall? or will that get me banned?

Observation duly noted, and observed myself, tends to be in my nature, and will try to not go down that road, everyone's on their own from here on out. I'll try to be more discerning. I think you know what I mean Dwayne. At least I hope you do. I believe we've discussed this before in PM's you and I Dwayne. . I've had pretty good luck with some of them. I guess you win some you lose some but I still hold out hope for some of them.

I really hate to see where this is going. I'm going to stay out of this one. I'm still very skeptical of this as Stephanie is well aware. NO Ak, I'm not sending money. I'm still processing all the accusations that the group is levelling which I have also had running in my head. At this time I have more than enough stuff going on in my head with other things in life going on - to list them here would be 1. Friend who just found out he didn't have thyroid cancer but has something else but he wants to talk to me about it 2. Friends son who just got a berlin heart 3. my project ends next Friday so I'm out of a job and will get 1/2 pay for the foreseable future 4. son in therapy 5. other issues going on 6. this drama 7. A diabetic physician practice who continues to say they want to put me on meal insulin but not till they get me in to the dietician yet they don't have a dietician on staff that will call me back to schedule an appointment So at this moment in time I choose not to participate as this is too much to handle right now. I've invested too much for this to be a hoax on us, I've invested to much for this not to be true. I don't know which I'd rather it be, me to be the gullible one and have the egg on my face or not. I'll take the egg if it means that she's not truly sick. So do and say whatever you have to say to figure out all this whether she's a fake or not a fake, honestly, I don't give a FUCK anymore. I've had it. Sorry that above was uncalled for, I'm just done, just hack away and once you figure it all out and determine if shes a fake or not, call me and let me know.

I don't think you will get to see the body. Legitimate obituary maybe. I'll let you finish your investigation before I make any more judgements. I need to see your results prior to my decisions.

I confronted her tonight as to the concerns that others on this site had voiced to me privately. I laid out a very strong case as to the concerns I had as well AK and others here who are concerned that she is not telling the truth. I asked her point blank if she was lying, I told her that it was important that she be truthful that it was important as she would be better off to tell the truth rather than continue to lie and she came out very quickly and said that she truly was sick and did suffer the arrests. What I did also discuss was her was the way her arrests happen. She has a AED attached, she said that each time she arrests it happens and the machine shocks her and the episode is over. It usually only happens one time. I can see how she could able to talk at sometime after that episode. We've all seen patients who were shocked once by an AED and lived to tell about it right? She gave the number at 50 but she told me later that that number might have been a bit high. Last nights events were different she told me, the episodes were happening off and on and that is why they didn't expect her to make it through the night. I took it at face value that she was really suffering the episode that night and I respected the privacy of the family so I didn't call them. Should I have, maybe so but I didn't. Todays arrest was the same, she said she arrested and was shocked and it took her a bit longer to come back but she did. I also explained my skepticism to her able to talk to me but she said she didn't know why she was able to talk to me but she was able. I asked her point blank today on the phone if she was lying, told her that it would be much easier to come clean now than to come clean later, and she said that she truly was sick. I have to take her at her word until it's proven otherwise. My spidey sense still says different but until she proves it wrong, I'm believing her. I understand your skepticism, I truly do, AK since you are on the case, go ahead and keep looking, I hope you are right, I hope that you find out that this is a kid who has been lying to me, playing on my friendship and my emotions, letting me get attached as a friend and someone that I care for, crying at the thought of losing a friend who I have come to care for quite a bit. I can deal with the knowledge that if she is a fake that she isn't dying. That would be the best news that I could hear. But when I post that she has passed away in the next couple of days or weeks due to complications from her cardiac condition, I hope that you can see it to say you were wrong. So do your investigation and prove her a liar, I'd like nothing better to be proven.

EMS, 1% sheer terror and 99% sitting on your ass watching TV and working out.

but in your example of Nana, is she receiving comfort care? If she isn't, then we are right back to where this discussion began aren't we? If a care giver coming in is considered comfort care then why are you bringing coding Nana up?

I agree but we are skirting the issue Kiwi. We are leaving out the most important person. I know at the time of our coming into the situation the question is moot but what about pre-situation. That person who is in Nana's shoes. HAve we asked her what she wants done? I'm sure that we have been to her house countless times. We know she's a waiting timebomb. Have we asked her or has the hospital asked her what she wants done? Have we asked her if her point blank, what she wants done when her heart stops? I have asked the patient who I know is getting ready to code, what they want done. Do they want me to code them, do they want CPR, do they want defibrillation and many times they have told me to let them go. I then get on the phone to the ER and talk to medical control. Each time medical control has backed the patient and allowed me to provide comfort measures and not to code them. Patient wishes trump family wishes every time in my book. I had a patient tell me one day as he was in V-tach with a very very weak pulse, "If you code me, I will kill you" and I believed him. I asked him again if he wanted to be resuscitated and he said no. I put him in the ambulance, transported him the 35 minutes to the hospital, had orders to not resuscitate, provided comfort care and he passed away very peacefully 20 minutes into transport. It was a surreal situation.

AWESOME job Kaisu I had the same thing happen a month or so ago and didn't put two an two together until I read your status. My dad has a friend named Dan. He had this mass on his face. I talked to him and noticed it. I didn't say anything. But it kept gnawing on my mind so I told my dad. My dad told Dan and Dan went to his doctor. Long story short Dan's doctor who is also a surgeon took out a huge melanoma and sent it off to pathology. It came back I blieve to be melanoma as well. Dan told my dad thanks for pushing him to go to the doctor. My dad is not sure if they got all of it but Dan is going to radiation treatment now as well. I am not sure if he will expect as good a recovery as your guy Kaisu but I think that leaving it alone would surely have cost Dan's life but maybe going to the doctor got it in time. I'll ask my dad more about it later. He will actually see Dan later this week.

But Has anyone asked Nana what she wants done? I don't see that anyone has asked Good ole Nana what she wants done, have they Kiwi?. Has anyone asked grandpa what he wants done? Kind of hard to ask after the arrest but prior to the arrest, a sit down with Nana would be most appropriate and say "Nana, when you go into cardiac arrest, and YES you will go into Cardiac arrest, not right now, not in the next 5 minutes but it's coming soon, what do you want done?" You outline what will happen when they code, what they EMS personnel will do to them if they haven't made plans to either allow it to happen or to keep it from happening and then have the game plan in place for when it does. That is what I helped my father go through with his father. We sat down with my grandfather and I outlined what the paramedics and firefighters would do to him when and if they found him in cardiac arrest in his house. He didn't have to go through that, he stroked out and they went a different treatment route in the house. But a code would have been ruled out because we did a No Code Blue form that the State of Missouri had developed. My grandfather passed peacefully without cpr in a nursing home at 3am one morning.

But that opinion is formed in what period of time? 30 seconds? 1 minute? How can they decide what that persons quality of life was in that 30 seconds that they have had with the patient. Seems like they better make a pretty good decision. What if their decision is wrong? This discussion is so important. This is why end of life discussions with your family are so important. There is no getting around the fact that some of us may die alone with no one to help guide the responders in whether we are worked or not, no one to give the responders the DNR or no code blue forms and we will have no choice but to be worked. but..... But there is a way for our final wishes to be carried out. we can have a end of life discussion with our families, and it's never too soon. Discuss your wishes and what you want to have happen. Be in agreement. My wife knows my wishes. Will she follow them when the time comes, only time will tell but she knows that she doesn't want Dwayne or Dfib or Tylerhastings to come knocking down my door and start pumping on my chest, she knows my wishes and I know hers. I hope she follows them. If not, I can't do a damn thing about it. But I hope she follows them. But if she does, she does and my wishes will have been carried out. Now on the other hand, If I am in the hospital and I code, then I want what can be done done, because I'm an organ donor and I stand the best chance of a good harvest in the hospital setting rather than in the field. So code me, code me code me and then harvest my organs, but don't keep me alive for vegetables sakes. Get the organs and get out. The world will be a better place with my organs in it.

I will work on getting that. If she survives the night, which I am praying that she does, I will get a address from her mother and then I will see if we can get a mass patch mail sent out to her hospital room in New Jersey. Guys, she really thinks of all of us here as her friends. She asks me when she calls or texts me on the phone "what do you think the City guys would think" That speaks volumes of how much she respects those of you on this site. I want to wait to see how she does overnight before we start to make it a memorial display or a welcome back display if that makes sense.

Got another text from her mother, said she coded again, they got her back. Said she's awake but too weak to move her fingers or barely keep her eyes open. This was at 8:58pm central time.

Cookie, Stephanie told me that she really only had like 2-3 months left. I asked her how that made her feel and she said she was ready. I had no response to that. She told me today that she passed all her tests and without even really studying for them. She was ready to go and take the big one she said.

What I want to know is this Who gets to make the decision of who gets worked? Is it the medical professional on the scene who has had a relationship with the patient that they are going to decide life or death for lets see like 3-4 minutes or is it someone else? I mean how can we as medical professionals decide who gets worked based on quality of life? is there some sort of formula that we are going to fill out? And we better have it filled out quickly because in an arrest situation every second counts. Or do we go around to everyones house in a proactive situation and fill it out and then it goes in a database or does it get filled out by social workers or others? Who fills out Dwaynes or mine or paramedic mikes because seriously, they have to be worked sometime as well. So who makes this God like or Take god out of it "ultimate life over death decision" to work someone or not. I said it in a previous post, there was one man who thought he knew best, his name started with an A. There are many many others who also thought they knew better. Others just killed you. We as providers, unless we have specific procedures/protocols/directives as to who gets worked and who doesn't then you work the person. This is one aspect of EMS where I fall into the "I'm a protocol junkie" If the person doesnt' have the obvious signs of death and I can document that or if they don't have a DNR or NO CODE order on their nursing home chart, sorry if it's inconvenient to anyone including myself, I'm going to start the code. This is why I'm such an advocate for end of life decisions and paperwork to outline what I want to have happen to me when I pass on. I don't want to be coded, I actually have a Advanced Directive. I stopped short of a Do Not Resuscitate though. My doctor didn't sign it but he would have if i would have pushed it.

Her mother put in the latest text that they do not expect her to last the night. They will make her comfortable. Dwayne, she has a problem with the electrical circuitry of her heart and the electrolytes that cause it to go haywire and cardiac arrest. I thought originally WPW but she said they never said that was it. This illness caused her to have multiple, like nearly 40-50 cardiac arrests in her lifetime. She carried around a portable defibrillator just so she'd have one when she went into arrest. She took one home with her from the hospital each time she went home on furlough. I just asked her mom what the illness was called as she seems to want to text "A LOT" right now. Probably to get her mind off this thing going on with Lotus. Any updates I get from her mother I will post here. Ok, from her mother, it was a variant of WPW but each time she was catheterized there were several extra nodes that would grow back after catheterization.

I actually knew ems was my calling when I called 911 and ems came a calling.

Just received a text from Lotus's mother that she went into cardiac arrest due to her illness and was placed on comfort care. I do believe from what I am getting from the mother that this is end stage for her. They are working on getting her a private room and then I will try to talk to her mother at that time. I will keep all apprised of what the status of her is as soon as I know more. Ruffems

So what did this fire department do when they got there first. Tell the patient, "we can't help you ma'am, we don't have a license to do nothing".