scene safety

[irlemt]

I need to find out your experiences about a particular issue of scene safety. In your own experience, how common is it for Emergency vehicles (all services not just EMS) to be struck by traffic at RTC (MVA) scenes? Is it more common for vehicles to be struck compared to Emergency workers being struck?

[Dustdevil]

I've had friends struck and killed on MVA scenes. I've been struck once myself. I've had my vehicle hit at least four times, but who's counting?

I don't know how statistically common either actually is, but I do know it happens too much. And I know that it happens a LOT more often than all the other violent dangers that EMTs seem to worry about so much.

[Ridryder 911]

To me this is much more a situation and danger than any assailant, or attack that might occur. Unfortunately, we have had at least five or more EMS personnel killed in the past five years due to this situation. As well with the new graduate of troopers and LEO, staging and safety appears to be a non-priority, ....rather to "keep the flow going"..I have had more than one encounter with state officers on this. I have informed my family in the event of any such accident to be sure to seek litigation against the LEO agency and personally against LEO as well. It has become ridiculous.

I know of one of the cities affected by slain firefighter and EMS personnel totally block off the highway with large pumpers & engines, daring any LEO to move them. This at least changed the attitudes and SOP in that area.

R/r 911

[DT4EMS]

Actually there have been more deaths "statistically" due to the MVC. As the driver, occupant or pedestrian around an ambulance the dangers are always present. The studies have stated more "injuries" from assaults.

Plus remember "ambulance crash" gets way more publicity than a medic attacked. Ambulance crashes are at the top of the "legal" food chain because the driver can almost always be faulted. Driving with "due care" are the words that haunt EMS.

The EMS Network keeps a running list of articles regarding both crashes and assaults.

Here is a quote from the NAEMT...........

A total of 1,356 NAEMT members participated in the survey, jointly commissioned by NAEMT and McNeil Consumer & Specialty Pharmaceuticals, and reported that:

• More than one in two (52%) have been assaulted by a patient;

• One in two (50%) have been exposed to an infectious disease;

• Almost one in two (47%) have sustained back injury while performing EMS duties; and

• One in five (21%) have contracted an illness from a patient.

The survey showed 4 out of 5 EMS providers were injured on the job. I don't think 4 out of 5 were due to crashes. Again more fatalities and more news coverage of the crashes.

The point I am trying to add to this......... there is EVOC and AVOC and CEVO to help with driving. Gloves to help with the infectious disease. Lifting and moving patients to help prevent back injuries. Give each it's due.

Regarding crashes............

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5208a3.htm

"During 1991--2000, the most recent year for which data were available, 300 fatal crashes occurred involving occupied ambulances, resulting in the deaths of 82 ambulance occupants and 275 occupants of other vehicles and pedestrians. The 300 crashes involved a total of 816 ambulance occupants. FARS does not differentiate ambulance workers from passengers among those experiencing nonfatal injuries in fatal crashes; however, the seating positions for all occupants and the severity of injuries can be determined from FARS data"

[elvismedic]

My departments SOG for MVC's on the highway is to take the lane the MVC is in and to take the lane closest. We haven't had any problems LE.

You'd think that LEO's would understand. They have much more incidents of being struck by vehicles while babysitting road crews than while at an MVC. Besides the big red trucks will take much more of an impact than their crown vics will.

[dahlio]

My departments SOG for MVC's on the highway is to take the lane the MVC is in and to take the lane closest. We haven't had any problems LE.

You'd think that LEO's would understand. They have much more incidents of being struck by vehicles while babysitting road crews than while at an MVC. Besides the big red trucks will take much more of an impact than their crown vics will.

That's nice that you can take up two lanes. As nice as I said the cops are around me, they still don't want to block traffic for an unnecessary lane. This makes it a real pain in the butt when it comes to grabbing stuff on the side of the rig, such as Boards, Collars, and Head Blocks. We have reflective vests in or ambulances which I take full advantage of, just because it's more EMS personal who get hurt at the scene of an MVC.

[CodeBlueEMT]

Scene safety on 10-50 calls shouldn't be difficult. Maybe I'm lucky. Our department responds to 10-50's with a set minimum of apparatus. An engine and our squad truck. The squad truck is a Freightliner FL60. The engine is used to block traffic if necessary. The squad truck can be positioned within the safe zone the engine provides. Other vehicles can be utilized above and below the scene to control traffic without shutting down the road. If possible, we will leave one lane open for traffic. If not, we'll shut it down. Our EMS crews are left room within the safe zone to park and takeover patient care. When law enforcement arrives, they can take over traffic control. Most of the time they let us handle it. We haven't had any vehicles or personnel hit. The possibility is always there. Thankfully, law enforcement works well with our depatment.

[paraloco]

A police officer was struck and killed a few days ago. A drunk driver sped through the motorcycle wreck scene at high speed, knocking her over an overpass. The next day, PD started shutting down the highways. Kinda late.

[irlemt]

Thanks for all the replies.The job I currently have is to drive a Doctor out on house calls in marked car. Sometimes we get called to accident scenes or more frequently we come across them when we're out. I've heard that the Drivers are being told that under no circumstances can they exit the vehicle (at mva's) to assist the Doctor. This would include getting equipment from the car etc. I want to make the argument that it is probably as much of a danger to remain in the vehicle as there is a very real danger of the vehicle being struck. We are usually the last service to arrive and would be nearest to oncoming traffic. We are all issued with and use Hi vis reflective jackets as standard. Several of us are First Responders (EMT- B Defib trained) and in the past have "assisted" with much appreciation from the Doctors.

[CodeBlueEMT]

I'd tell Doc to get his stuff out, then find a safe place to park.

Shayne